India has great history, culture and legacy, but what is lacking to progress?

[CanadianMalodu]

19 minutes ago, krishnaaa said:

Had couple Jewish collegues. It was so easy to talk to them. They operate on logic like OP said.

They also helped me change some of my outdated views about money.

Logical guys operate on logic, that includes jews. As a whole how did you arrive at a conclusion that Jews are logical? Even if you say that Jews(large or all) are logical, is it your understanding that others are not as logical? What's your baseline ?

Also why do you think, Jews didn't built a society on their own? Even Israel is not built on their own.

[krishnaaa]

11 minutes ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Logical guys operate on logic, that includes jews. As a whole how did you arrive at a conclusion that Jews are logical? Even if you say that Jews(large or all) are logical, is it your understanding that others are not as logical? What's your baseline ?

Also why do you think, Jews didn't built a society on their own? Even Israel is not built on their own.

Its so easy to deflect from the main argument because it doesn't align with our core belief.

People matter more than the government and if we want to see a change, we have to change ourselves first and then our neighbors.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

[pichukgudu]

25 minutes ago, socrates said:

bengal famine happend on 1944-45 not because of british policies during war time and bad monsoon, its man made catastrophe , before the bengal mansoon also india was producing large agro products 

still if you want to take that bengal famine as example, why cant you compare that with chines famine which happened around 1960, they also feeding one billion and also largest exporter of agro products still if, agro machinery, agro chemicals..etc

this is the whole point of this thread, in my first post itself i mentioned we are just believing something and if someone questions it, then countering back with  referring “YOU” like that, like this …etc

thats called being slave to your own thoughts in short close minded 

 

not sure, if u've heard abt forceful Indigo cultivation by farmers as Britishers made money due to its increased demand in Europe .. also paid less to farmers .. it also deteriorated the fertility of land .. that in many ways led to famine like situation down d line .. 

Coming to ur question abt India's progress .. When the British rule ended in India in the year 1947 the literacy rate was just 16%. Over the years, India has changed socially, economically, and globally. After the 2011 census, literacy rate India 2011 was found to be 74.04%... & its like 64 yrs .. dont u see it as progress?  In 1947, India's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was `2,700 Bn which has increased to US $ 3.53 Tr in 2021, making it the world’s sixth largest economy. Per capita income jumped over 500 times; in 1950 it stood at ₹ 265 and it increased to ₹ 128,829 in 2020-21 (in 75 yrs after getting colonised for 200 yrs..) .. even d developed nations havent achieved such a feat .. US took 100s of yrs to be what it is today ..

If u're unable to see / accept facts .. u've apparently already made up ur mind .. & not open for any diversified opinions .. but can only see odrs wid different perception as senseless / heretics!     

[krishnaaa]

13 minutes ago, pichukgudu said:

not sure, if u've heard abt forceful Indigo cultivation by farmers as Britishers made money due to its increased demand in Europe .. also paid less to farmers .. it also deteriorated the fertility of land .. that in many ways led to famine like situation down d line .. 

Coming to ur question abt India's progress .. When the British rule ended in India in the year 1947 the literacy rate was just 16%. Over the years, India has changed socially, economically, and globally. After the 2011 census, literacy rate India 2011 was found to be 74.04%... & its like 64 yrs .. dont u see it as progress?  In 1947, India's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was `2,700 Bn which has increased to US $ 3.53 Tr in 2021, making it the world’s sixth largest economy. Per capita income jumped over 500 times; in 1950 it stood at ₹ 265 and it increased to ₹ 128,829 in 2020-21 (in 75 yrs after getting colonised for 200 yrs..) .. even d developed nations havent achieved such a feat .. US took 100s of yrs to be what it is today ..

If u're unable to see / accept facts .. u've apparently already made up ur mind .. & not open for any diversified opinions .. but can only see odrs wid different perception as senseless / heretics!     

India progressed. No one is argueing that.

But the rate of progress is too slow. India having the 2nd largest manpower for quite a while was unable to capitalize on it.

It took lot of time to open up the economy due to PV Narasimha Rao. If he wasn't there, we would have lost couple decades.

At the end of the day all this talk about poilitics , what happened, what could have happened is pure waste of time.

What are you doing for the betterment of India? Is where the slution lies.

[pichukgudu]

1 hour ago, krishnaaa said:

Agree with you.

Indians are horrible with logic.

They are more emotional and keep saying the same idiotic things day and night.

There is so much friction inside Indian brains on an average to accept simple logic.

For example, white rice is poison. Much better option would be Hand pounded rice.

Its better for health and tastes 10 times better than white rice once you get used to it.

But still idiotic Indians keep consuming white rice.

 

Desi yogurt has 12 grams of sugar....why does it sell so much in Indian stores? Percentage of Indians who are idiots.

Why do even masters educated idiots buy Indian chocolates and biscuits from Indian store which have more artificial colours and crap?

Why are Indian restaurants able to sell fried appetizers, fat loaded curries and sugar bomb deserts? Indian idiots. 

Don't give me that BS crap that you live only once blah blah blah. Even a drug addict would say the same. But is that a life?

 

These idiots instead of accepting logic, start blaming government and circumstances.

First step is to accept you are an idiot....only then transformation will happen.

I have seen this transformation in some idiots where they start accepting logic only after he/she faced severe circumstance like health hazard/death/relationship crisis etc.

My question to everyone is ..... do you need that huge trigger to change yourself? Isn't this post enough?

 

Ur logic looks pretty fragile to me! U're generalising a 1.5B population (1/5th) on Earth & criticising 'em that they dont like being logical (if iam not wrong?) Curious to understand then why different ppl choose to do different things including d ones who work in different countries & make good engineers / medicos / ceo's / leaders / teachers etc ??

Funny, u chose food, some ppl consume, to justify ur statements .. 😂 

I'd like to remind u abt a filmy dialogue: "Mana desham lo Elections e annitikante pedda drama" & every child in this country is aware of this!

If u're taking ppl seriously .. who blame govt. for their miseries .. then God help u !! 

In a country as huge as India (1/6th of World's Population) but wid less resources (1/3rd of US), problems u see r ought to exist .. also d situation we're in currently, is remarkable .. if u compare wid many odr nations (especially 3rd world). Even d so-called developed nations look more vulnerable to economic problems i d recent times !!

[krishnaaa]

1 minute ago, pichukgudu said:

Ur logic looks pretty fragile to me! U're generalising a 1.5B population (1/5th) on Earth & criticising 'em that they dont like being logical (if iam not wrong?) Curious to understand then why different ppl choose to do different things including d ones who work in different countries & make good engineers / medicos / ceo's / leaders / teachers etc ??

Funny, u chose food, some ppl consume, to justify ur statements .. 😂 

I'd like to remind u abt a filmy dialogue: "Mana desham lo Elections e annitikante pedda drama" & every child in this country is aware of this!

If u're taking ppl seriously .. who blame govt. for their miseries .. then God help u !! 

In a country as huge as India (1/6th of World's Population) but wid less resources (1/3rd of US), problems u see r ought to exist .. also d situation we're in currently, is remarkable .. if u compare wid many odr nations (especially 3rd world). Even d so-called developed nations look more vulnerable to economic problems i d recent times !!

This post proves my point exactly. Thank you.

You gotto read this too https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

[Pavanonline]

9 minutes ago, pichukgudu said:

Ur logic looks pretty fragile to me! U're generalising a 1.5B population (1/5th) on Earth & criticising 'em that they dont like being logical (if iam not wrong?) Curious to understand then why different ppl choose to do different things including d ones who work in different countries & make good engineers / medicos / ceo's / leaders / teachers etc ??

Funny, u chose food, some ppl consume, to justify ur statements .. 😂 

I'd like to remind u abt a filmy dialogue: "Mana desham lo Elections e annitikante pedda drama" & every child in this country is aware of this!

If u're taking ppl seriously .. who blame govt. for their miseries .. then God help u !! 

In a country as huge as India (1/6th of World's Population) but wid less resources (1/3rd of US), problems u see r ought to exist .. also d situation we're in currently, is remarkable .. if u compare wid many odr nations (especially 3rd world). Even d so-called developed nations look more vulnerable to economic problems i d recent times !!

It's impossible to get to conclusions without generalizing majority of population though. 

While many are rational, majority are emotional. Unless you come out and watch the society from outside you won't observe it as well.

Take the tirumala incident, all discussion sidetracked to apology instead of demanding for increasing counters multifold and other innovative ideas for crowd control.

People want continuous involvement of govt in every thing while blaming the govt all at same time. 

[pichukgudu]

31 minutes ago, krishnaaa said:

India progressed. No one is argueing that.

But the rate of progress is too slow. India having the 2nd largest manpower for quite a while was unable to capitalize on it.

It took lot of time to open up the economy due to PV Narasimha Rao. If he wasn't there, we would have lost couple decades.

At the end of the day all this talk about poilitics , what happened, what could have happened is pure waste of time.

What are you doing for the betterment of India? Is where the slution lies.

Just coz of changes in economy that u see in last 20 yrs is making u say so .. i guess .. Ind was far behind as it couldn't capitalize during IR 1.0. IR 2.0 & only recently after recovering from all the colonial distress .. Ind caught up wid d world in last 10 yrs .. may be less ..

Ind was forced to open its economy .. wasnt a choice !! We ran out of our Forex & were having oil for only few months .. thats when to get loan we were asked to open our economy .. & in 1991 the then govt. brought in LPG reforms .. every decision any govt made w.r.t. country was based on circumstances .. just like an individual does, in his / her own life .. shouldn't see that as someone's strength / weakness!

Politics is a very complex topic! Ind is not some nation wid lots of resources & friendly neighbours .. not to forget the cultural diversity after all!

I disagree when someone says that govt / citizens r not doing anything except blaming someone else for their miseries .. everyone does something or d odr based on their own calculations .. very easy to judge someone from outside .. but we definitely might not be aware of the complete story at any point of time!

Coming to India, it has d advantage of demographic dividend till 2050 which d govt has acknowledged numerous times .. just in case if u missed it .. & also plans to utilise the same by creating opportunities as they seem fit! not everything can be assessed as quickly as it takes to implement things .. some policies fruitful results take time! 

[pichukgudu]

15 minutes ago, Pavanonline said:

It's impossible to get to conclusions without generalizing majority of population though. 

While many are rational, majority are emotional. Unless you come out and watch the society from outside you won't observe it as well.

Take the tirumala incident, all discussion sidetracked to apology instead of demanding for increasing counters multifold and other innovative ideas for crowd control.

People want continuous involvement of govt in every thing while blaming the govt all at same time. 

See .. this is d problem wid social media & odr instruments which actually makes ur mind to believe that this is wat the whole world is thinking!

If u look in d real world .. these incidents r not new & continue to happen more often than not! but hw many of this have made the govt responsible when it comes to assessment of their administration during the tenure they held power!

there will always be a section of society which wud cry foul on some or d odr thing & govt will always be an easy target .. but look beyond d horizon .. there are many who actually are not much interested abt things where the fault lies at different layers .. such as ppl like u, me & many more here & everywhere .. we just discuss in such forums .. but we let it go & get busy again wid our personal responsibilities & odr stuff that really matters ... 

[Pavanonline]

We have to breakdown into different periods of time right. During the time of big empires (pre British and Mughal) there was relatively good progress in science and math. And then knowledge got compartmentalized to only one caste. 

2nd is innovation revolved around God. Or for that matter anything music, dance, science, math everything revolved around God than society. 

And then internal kingdom conflicts weakend everything making way for foreign invasions and loot. It's hard to overcome 500 years of loot and suppression. Caste divisions only became worse because of scarcity. 

After "freedom" instead of unifying we codified divisions into the Constitution. We copied blindly from British, adopted inefficient civil service system that was put by British for completely different purposes. Brought govt raj putting govt everywhere and increasing corruption with it. Pakistan I think during same time made better decisions early on but put on a disastrous path with coup and became Islamic nation.

Whatever capitalism that was brought in after disastrous socialist/Communist policies became crony because govt never really gave up the power of deciding winners and losers except in areas where it didn't have expertise like tech. Then came the brain drain because of all the issues built into system.

Despite all this we are better than most nations and as access to markets improves, things will continue to get better. Major overhauls needed starting all branches of govt but I think it'll come with more financial freedom first.

[pichukgudu]

39 minutes ago, krishnaaa said:

This post proves my point exactly. Thank you.

You gotto read this too https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Apparently, the page talks abt d psychology of humans in general, & u seem to believe that its true for everyone! BUT except a particular group such as jews, coz u kno in ur heart that only they're d best human race / ethnic group !!

IRONIC !!!!!

[CanadianMalodu]

1 hour ago, krishnaaa said:

Its so easy to deflect from the main argument because it doesn't align with our core belief.

People matter more than the government and if we want to see a change, we have to change ourselves first and then our neighbors.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

No deflection. We will get to that too. I'm trying to see the extent of Jewish distraction. But you still didn't answer that part.

[krishnaaa]

1 hour ago, pichukgudu said:

Just coz of changes in economy that u see in last 20 yrs is making u say so .. i guess .. Ind was far behind as it couldn't capitalize during IR 1.0. IR 2.0 & only recently after recovering from all the colonial distress .. Ind caught up wid d world in last 10 yrs .. may be less ..

Ind was forced to open its economy .. wasnt a choice !! We ran out of our Forex & were having oil for only few months .. thats when to get loan we were asked to open our economy .. & in 1991 the then govt. brought in LPG reforms .. every decision any govt made w.r.t. country was based on circumstances .. just like an individual does, in his / her own life .. shouldn't see that as someone's strength / weakness!

Politics is a very complex topic! Ind is not some nation wid lots of resources & friendly neighbours .. not to forget the cultural diversity after all!

I disagree when someone says that govt / citizens r not doing anything except blaming someone else for their miseries .. everyone does something or d odr based on their own calculations .. very easy to judge someone from outside .. but we definitely might not be aware of the complete story at any point of time!

Coming to India, it has d advantage of demographic dividend till 2050 which d govt has acknowledged numerous times .. just in case if u missed it .. & also plans to utilise the same by creating opportunities as they seem fit! not everything can be assessed as quickly as it takes to implement things .. some policies fruitful results take time! 

As I said already,all this is a complete waste of time.

The solution is to implement things on personal level. They don't have to be big.

Let me know if any other solution exists.

[krishnaaa]

1 hour ago, pichukgudu said:

Apparently, the page talks abt d psychology of humans in general, & u seem to believe that its true for everyone! BUT except a particular group such as jews, coz u kno in ur heart that only they're d best human race / ethnic group !!

IRONIC !!!!!

This is a typical far left or far right argument.

Probabilities matter. Culture determines how much you get triggered on an average.

 

[pichukgudu]

49 minutes ago, Pavanonline said:

We have to breakdown into different periods of time right. During the time of big empires (pre British and Mughal) there was relatively good progress in science and math. And then knowledge got compartmentalized to only one caste. 

2nd is innovation revolved around God. Or for that matter anything music, dance, science, math everything revolved around God than society. 

And then internal kingdom conflicts weakend everything making way for foreign invasions and loot. It's hard to overcome 500 years of loot and suppression. Caste divisions only became worse because of scarcity. 

After "freedom" instead of unifying we codified divisions into the Constitution. We copied blindly from British, adopted inefficient civil service system that was put by British for completely different purposes. Brought govt raj putting govt everywhere and increasing corruption with it. Pakistan I think during same time made better decisions early on but put on a disastrous path with coup and became Islamic nation.

Whatever capitalism that was brought in after disastrous socialist/Communist policies became crony because govt never really gave up the power of deciding winners and losers except in areas where it didn't have expertise like tech. Then came the brain drain because of all the issues built into system.

Despite all this we are better than most nations and as access to markets improves, things will continue to get better. Major overhauls needed starting all branches of govt but I think it'll come with more financial freedom first.

Red: what do u mean by this statement? AFAIK, knowledge doesnt just mean STEM! if u're aware there were families wid expertise on a particular discipline .. like pottery, weaving, sculpture - making, stone-cuttings etc. & they continued to carry out the same profession for generations! (Traditional Occupation)

Blue: During those days, our civilization used God to spread knowledge, not d odr way around! Like as they say .. communication was very difficult .. since everyone believed in God, if things anyone want a group to believe in / follow, they used God as an excuse .. thats how many concepts related to whatever disciplines u mentioned were explained / demonstrated in temples or any spiritually accepted discussions .. also if u are aware abt Tamilians history where they spent lot of money in building temples & showed that as their glory, its for this very reason .. in the words of textbooks, "Temples were the centres for learning & dissemination of knowledge"

Green: Caste system & division within society was a mischief of a particular group of ppl! Pre-Mughal era .. there was a social order in Indian society & every person had equal status w.r.t their skill & every skill was considered as special (but alliances used to happen within their own groups) .. When Mughals took over .. this social order got disturbed coz followers of Islam dont preach / follow any reservations w.r.t marriages .. so when ppl started liking women 4m groups odr than theirs .. & there were no laws restricting this practice .. group that considered themselves as higher brought in a law book written by themselves for themselves .. that when this mess started .. (if u're interested u can research abt this! Wont be easier to explain in detail here!)

Yellow: this is absolutely wrong! Constitution framing part was handled by a group of members from constituent assembly that was led by B.R.Ambedkar among a dozen more eminent lawyers across different parts of India! Every Article / Clause was carefully drafted after going through the other available constitutions of different countries of the world, & their shortcomings along with different ideas taken from different countries & improvised to suit Indian society! Only reason RESERVATIONS were added was to provide a helping hand to all those oppressed ppl who suffered under upper caste ppl for decades and B.R.Ambedkar was d best example, who wanted this division to be erased once & for all! It just backfired! As i said in another post, whatever decisions taken by govt / representatives of govt .. w.r.t. country more often than not has good intentions behind 'em .. but no one can control the outcome in any such case. this one is a classic example which pulls this country down again & again eve to this day in 21st century!

Reason behind 'Red-Tape' was India was sensitive abt foreign interventions & volatile neighbourhood .. Also we (INC under Nehru .. more inclined towards USSR) were against Capitalism .. so intense monitoring .. that delayed progress, ofcourse!

Above reason also explains the content highlighted in Orange!

"Brain-drain" is a situation that can be attributed to many factors! Staring with the aspiration to lead a better life, to following the current trend, there are multiple reasons .. and iam not sure .. if India only exports brightest minds! Nevertheless, definitely majority of well-educated & smart individuals are looking towards better opportunities outside the country even to this day, but mainly coz India is over crowded & cant cater to everyone's tailored needs .. so the ones who can plan an escape, they dont hesitate .. but for those who dont have an option / who chose to stay back, for whatever reason, they do whatever they can to survive! And no secret that many of us hv made those choices & seen d changes in our lifetime for ourselves!

Everything has its own pro's & con's .. & that slowly gets revealed wid time .. there are some socilogical & economic theories explaining such scenarios .. such as how a country develops & d stages it passes thru .. while this happens .. & hw ppl move up from one economic class to d odr .. for which lot of factors hv to co-incide  & ofcourse there shd be political will, as well coz at d end of d day .. govt is what runs a country!