Mancode Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 The 2025 India–Pakistan standoff, sparked by the April 22, 2025, Pahalgam attack in Jammu and Kashmir, did not have a clear "winner" in the traditional sense, as it was a complex military and diplomatic crisis that ended with a ceasefire but ongoing tensions. Below is an analysis based on available information, critically examining outcomes for both sides: Background Trigger: The Pahalgam attack killed 26–28 civilians, mostly Hindu tourists, and was initially claimed by The Resistance Front (TRF), believed to be linked to Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, though the claim was later retracted. India accused Pakistan of sponsoring the attack, which Pakistan denied. Escalation: From April 24, armed skirmishes occurred along the Line of Control (LoC), followed by India's missile strikes on May 7 (Operation Sindoor) targeting alleged terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan. Pakistan launched a retaliatory operation (Operation Bunyan al-Marsus) on May 10. Ceasefire: A U.S.-mediated ceasefire was announced on May 10, 2025, effective from 16:30 PKT/17:00 IST, but violations were reported shortly after, with explosions in Jammu and Srinagar. Outcomes and Claims of Victory India's Perspective: Military Objectives: India claimed Operation Sindoor successfully targeted Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba camps, including a Jaish-e-Mohammed site in Bahawalpur linked to historical terrorism. The operation reportedly killed Abdul Rauf Azhar, a senior Jaish-e-Mohammed commander. India described the strikes as "focused, measured, and non-escalatory," avoiding Pakistani military facilities. Strategic Moves: India suspended the Indus Waters Treaty, closed borders, expelled Pakistani diplomats, and restricted airspace, signaling a hardline stance against perceived cross-border terrorism. These actions disrupted Pakistan’s water resources, with reports of flooding from the Uri Dam and reduced water flow in the Chenab River. Domestic Narrative: India’s government portrayed the strikes as a strong response to terrorism, bolstered by domestic support and protests by the Indian diaspora abroad. Some X posts claimed India demonstrated "overwhelming superiority" by striking deep into Pakistani territory. Losses: India denied losing aircraft, but Pakistan claimed to have downed several Indian jets (including Rafales), supported by a French intelligence source and U.S. officials reporting crashes. Reuters noted three Indian jets crashed for "unknown causes," which India did not confirm. Pakistan’s Perspective: Military Response: Pakistan claimed its air defenses downed multiple Indian jets and 25–29 Indian drones, including one at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium. Operation Bunyan al-Marsus targeted Indian cities, though Pakistan denied civilian targeting. Pakistan’s military touted a propaganda victory, with Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif claiming India was brought to its knees. Civilian Impact: Pakistan reported 31 civilian deaths from India’s strikes, alleging attacks on civilian areas like mosques. This fueled domestic outrage and calls for retaliation. Diplomatic Narrative: Pakistan denied involvement in the Pahalgam attack and urged an international inquiry, which India rejected. Some X posts suggested Pakistan won the "narrative war," as no major international actor explicitly blamed Pakistan for terrorism, unlike past conflicts. Economic and Strategic Strain: The standoff strained Pakistan’s fragile economy, with Moody’s warning of setbacks to fiscal consolidation and external financing. Pakistan’s suspension of trade, airspace, and the Simla Agreement mirrored India’s measures but highlighted its limited leverage. Critical Analysis Military Impact: Both sides claimed tactical successes, but evidence is murky. India’s strikes hit high-value targets, but Pakistan’s reported downing of jets (if true) exposed Indian vulnerabilities. Drone warfare marked a new dimension, with Pakistan claiming to neutralize Indian drones, though India’s S-400 system reportedly countered Pakistani strikes. Neither side achieved a decisive military edge. Diplomatic Fallout: India’s aggressive measures (e.g., suspending the Indus Waters Treaty) gave it a strategic initiative but risked international criticism for escalating water disputes. Pakistan’s call for an inquiry gained little traction, and its economic fragility limited its ability to sustain a prolonged conflict. The U.S., Russia, and others urged de-escalation, indicating global concern but no clear alignment. Ceasefire Violations: The immediate post-ceasefire explosions suggest neither side fully committed to de-escalation, undermining claims of victory. Ongoing punitive measures (trade bans, visa cancellations) indicate a frozen diplomatic state. Misinformation: Both countries’ media spread conflicting narratives, with India denying jet losses and Pakistan exaggerating air defense successes. This clouds objective assessment. Conclusion No side unequivocally "won" the 2025 India–Pakistan standoff. India achieved its stated goal of targeting militant infrastructure and projected strength domestically, but potential jet losses and ceasefire violations weakened its position. Pakistan countered militarily and scored propaganda points but faced civilian losses and economic strain without overturning India’s narrative. The ceasefire, mediated by the U.S., halted major hostilities, but unresolved tensions and mutual punitive measures suggest a stalemate rather than a victory. The situation remains volatile, with Kashmir as a persistent flashpoint. @Raisins_72 @Spartan @Android_Halwa @Sucker @yslokesh @DonnyStrumpet Quote
Sam480 Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 5 minutes ago, Mancode said: The 2025 India–Pakistan standoff, sparked by the April 22, 2025, Pahalgam attack in Jammu and Kashmir, did not have a clear "winner" in the traditional sense, as it was a complex military and diplomatic crisis that ended with a ceasefire but ongoing tensions. Below is an analysis based on available information, critically examining outcomes for both sides: Background Trigger: The Pahalgam attack killed 26–28 civilians, mostly Hindu tourists, and was initially claimed by The Resistance Front (TRF), believed to be linked to Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, though the claim was later retracted. India accused Pakistan of sponsoring the attack, which Pakistan denied. Escalation: From April 24, armed skirmishes occurred along the Line of Control (LoC), followed by India's missile strikes on May 7 (Operation Sindoor) targeting alleged terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan. Pakistan launched a retaliatory operation (Operation Bunyan al-Marsus) on May 10. Ceasefire: A U.S.-mediated ceasefire was announced on May 10, 2025, effective from 16:30 PKT/17:00 IST, but violations were reported shortly after, with explosions in Jammu and Srinagar. Outcomes and Claims of Victory India's Perspective: Military Objectives: India claimed Operation Sindoor successfully targeted Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba camps, including a Jaish-e-Mohammed site in Bahawalpur linked to historical terrorism. The operation reportedly killed Abdul Rauf Azhar, a senior Jaish-e-Mohammed commander. India described the strikes as "focused, measured, and non-escalatory," avoiding Pakistani military facilities. Strategic Moves: India suspended the Indus Waters Treaty, closed borders, expelled Pakistani diplomats, and restricted airspace, signaling a hardline stance against perceived cross-border terrorism. These actions disrupted Pakistan’s water resources, with reports of flooding from the Uri Dam and reduced water flow in the Chenab River. Domestic Narrative: India’s government portrayed the strikes as a strong response to terrorism, bolstered by domestic support and protests by the Indian diaspora abroad. Some X posts claimed India demonstrated "overwhelming superiority" by striking deep into Pakistani territory. Losses: India denied losing aircraft, but Pakistan claimed to have downed several Indian jets (including Rafales), supported by a French intelligence source and U.S. officials reporting crashes. Reuters noted three Indian jets crashed for "unknown causes," which India did not confirm. Pakistan’s Perspective: Military Response: Pakistan claimed its air defenses downed multiple Indian jets and 25–29 Indian drones, including one at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium. Operation Bunyan al-Marsus targeted Indian cities, though Pakistan denied civilian targeting. Pakistan’s military touted a propaganda victory, with Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif claiming India was brought to its knees. Civilian Impact: Pakistan reported 31 civilian deaths from India’s strikes, alleging attacks on civilian areas like mosques. This fueled domestic outrage and calls for retaliation. Diplomatic Narrative: Pakistan denied involvement in the Pahalgam attack and urged an international inquiry, which India rejected. Some X posts suggested Pakistan won the "narrative war," as no major international actor explicitly blamed Pakistan for terrorism, unlike past conflicts. Economic and Strategic Strain: The standoff strained Pakistan’s fragile economy, with Moody’s warning of setbacks to fiscal consolidation and external financing. Pakistan’s suspension of trade, airspace, and the Simla Agreement mirrored India’s measures but highlighted its limited leverage. Critical Analysis Military Impact: Both sides claimed tactical successes, but evidence is murky. India’s strikes hit high-value targets, but Pakistan’s reported downing of jets (if true) exposed Indian vulnerabilities. Drone warfare marked a new dimension, with Pakistan claiming to neutralize Indian drones, though India’s S-400 system reportedly countered Pakistani strikes. Neither side achieved a decisive military edge. Diplomatic Fallout: India’s aggressive measures (e.g., suspending the Indus Waters Treaty) gave it a strategic initiative but risked international criticism for escalating water disputes. Pakistan’s call for an inquiry gained little traction, and its economic fragility limited its ability to sustain a prolonged conflict. The U.S., Russia, and others urged de-escalation, indicating global concern but no clear alignment. Ceasefire Violations: The immediate post-ceasefire explosions suggest neither side fully committed to de-escalation, undermining claims of victory. Ongoing punitive measures (trade bans, visa cancellations) indicate a frozen diplomatic state. Misinformation: Both countries’ media spread conflicting narratives, with India denying jet losses and Pakistan exaggerating air defense successes. This clouds objective assessment. Conclusion No side unequivocally "won" the 2025 India–Pakistan standoff. India achieved its stated goal of targeting militant infrastructure and projected strength domestically, but potential jet losses and ceasefire violations weakened its position. Pakistan countered militarily and scored propaganda points but faced civilian losses and economic strain without overturning India’s narrative. The ceasefire, mediated by the U.S., halted major hostilities, but unresolved tensions and mutual punitive measures suggest a stalemate rather than a victory. The situation remains volatile, with Kashmir as a persistent flashpoint. @Raisins_72 @Spartan @Android_Halwa @Sucker @yslokesh @DonnyStrumpet Western media narrative is more like pak won Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, Sam480 said: Western media narrative is more like pak won grok is mostly pro india Quote
Sam480 Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 Just now, Mancode said: grok is mostly pro india I'm referring to western MSM Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 Just now, Sam480 said: I'm referring to western MSM in same media, modiji wants good press Quote
jobkastalu Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 In summary, while India maintained robust technological and defensive advantages, Pakistan managed to secure tactical gains and win favor in the international diplomatic arena. Quote
anna_gari_maata Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 35 minutes ago, Mancode said: The 2025 India–Pakistan standoff, sparked by the April 22, 2025, Pahalgam attack in Jammu and Kashmir, did not have a clear "winner" in the traditional sense, as it was a complex military and diplomatic crisis that ended with a ceasefire but ongoing tensions. Below is an analysis based on available information, critically examining outcomes for both sides: Background Trigger: The Pahalgam attack killed 26–28 civilians, mostly Hindu tourists, and was initially claimed by The Resistance Front (TRF), believed to be linked to Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, though the claim was later retracted. India accused Pakistan of sponsoring the attack, which Pakistan denied. Escalation: From April 24, armed skirmishes occurred along the Line of Control (LoC), followed by India's missile strikes on May 7 (Operation Sindoor) targeting alleged terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan. Pakistan launched a retaliatory operation (Operation Bunyan al-Marsus) on May 10. Ceasefire: A U.S.-mediated ceasefire was announced on May 10, 2025, effective from 16:30 PKT/17:00 IST, but violations were reported shortly after, with explosions in Jammu and Srinagar. Outcomes and Claims of Victory India's Perspective: Military Objectives: India claimed Operation Sindoor successfully targeted Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba camps, including a Jaish-e-Mohammed site in Bahawalpur linked to historical terrorism. The operation reportedly killed Abdul Rauf Azhar, a senior Jaish-e-Mohammed commander. India described the strikes as "focused, measured, and non-escalatory," avoiding Pakistani military facilities. Strategic Moves: India suspended the Indus Waters Treaty, closed borders, expelled Pakistani diplomats, and restricted airspace, signaling a hardline stance against perceived cross-border terrorism. These actions disrupted Pakistan’s water resources, with reports of flooding from the Uri Dam and reduced water flow in the Chenab River. Domestic Narrative: India’s government portrayed the strikes as a strong response to terrorism, bolstered by domestic support and protests by the Indian diaspora abroad. Some X posts claimed India demonstrated "overwhelming superiority" by striking deep into Pakistani territory. Losses: India denied losing aircraft, but Pakistan claimed to have downed several Indian jets (including Rafales), supported by a French intelligence source and U.S. officials reporting crashes. Reuters noted three Indian jets crashed for "unknown causes," which India did not confirm. Pakistan’s Perspective: Military Response: Pakistan claimed its air defenses downed multiple Indian jets and 25–29 Indian drones, including one at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium. Operation Bunyan al-Marsus targeted Indian cities, though Pakistan denied civilian targeting. Pakistan’s military touted a propaganda victory, with Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif claiming India was brought to its knees. Civilian Impact: Pakistan reported 31 civilian deaths from India’s strikes, alleging attacks on civilian areas like mosques. This fueled domestic outrage and calls for retaliation. Diplomatic Narrative: Pakistan denied involvement in the Pahalgam attack and urged an international inquiry, which India rejected. Some X posts suggested Pakistan won the "narrative war," as no major international actor explicitly blamed Pakistan for terrorism, unlike past conflicts. Economic and Strategic Strain: The standoff strained Pakistan’s fragile economy, with Moody’s warning of setbacks to fiscal consolidation and external financing. Pakistan’s suspension of trade, airspace, and the Simla Agreement mirrored India’s measures but highlighted its limited leverage. Critical Analysis Military Impact: Both sides claimed tactical successes, but evidence is murky. India’s strikes hit high-value targets, but Pakistan’s reported downing of jets (if true) exposed Indian vulnerabilities. Drone warfare marked a new dimension, with Pakistan claiming to neutralize Indian drones, though India’s S-400 system reportedly countered Pakistani strikes. Neither side achieved a decisive military edge. Diplomatic Fallout: India’s aggressive measures (e.g., suspending the Indus Waters Treaty) gave it a strategic initiative but risked international criticism for escalating water disputes. Pakistan’s call for an inquiry gained little traction, and its economic fragility limited its ability to sustain a prolonged conflict. The U.S., Russia, and others urged de-escalation, indicating global concern but no clear alignment. Ceasefire Violations: The immediate post-ceasefire explosions suggest neither side fully committed to de-escalation, undermining claims of victory. Ongoing punitive measures (trade bans, visa cancellations) indicate a frozen diplomatic state. Misinformation: Both countries’ media spread conflicting narratives, with India denying jet losses and Pakistan exaggerating air defense successes. This clouds objective assessment. Conclusion No side unequivocally "won" the 2025 India–Pakistan standoff. India achieved its stated goal of targeting militant infrastructure and projected strength domestically, but potential jet losses and ceasefire violations weakened its position. Pakistan countered militarily and scored propaganda points but faced civilian losses and economic strain without overturning India’s narrative. The ceasefire, mediated by the U.S., halted major hostilities, but unresolved tensions and mutual punitive measures suggest a stalemate rather than a victory. The situation remains volatile, with Kashmir as a persistent flashpoint. @Raisins_72 @Spartan @Android_Halwa @Sucker @yslokesh @DonnyStrumpet This is media narrative India didn't report any damage to fighter jets. Tactically India won by a mile. It's like telling a a kid has won because the kid cried a lot Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, anna_gari_maata said: This is media narrative India didn't report any damage to fighter jets. Tactically India won by a mile. It's like telling a a kid has won because the kid cried a lot 3 fighter jets shot down rafale , mirage 2000 and unknown fighter jet https://www.reuters.com/world/pakistans-chinese-made-jet-brought-down-two-indian-fighter-aircraft-us-officials-2025-05-08/ https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/india-pakistan-attack-kashmir-tourists-intl-hnk https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/what-happened-indias-attack-pakistan-over-kashmir-tourists-killings-2025-05-07/ Quote
anna_gari_maata Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 3 minutes ago, Mancode said: 3 fighter jets shot down rafale , mirage 2000 and unknown fighter jet https://www.reuters.com/world/pakistans-chinese-made-jet-brought-down-two-indian-fighter-aircraft-us-officials-2025-05-08/ https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/india-pakistan-attack-kashmir-tourists-intl-hnk https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/what-happened-indias-attack-pakistan-over-kashmir-tourists-killings-2025-05-07/ they have zero proofs. Check the article writers India won't reveal for obvious reasons If fighter jets were downed India would have panicked the next minute thatha supporter ayyundi cnn trusting ante em chepta inka 2 Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 8 minutes ago, anna_gari_maata said: they have zero proofs. Check the article writers India won't reveal for obvious reasons If fighter jets were downed India would have panicked the next minute thatha supporter ayyundi cnn trusting ante em chepta inka even 2 jets shot down, i dont care honestly, but french official accepted rafale was shot down, still thats okay but america chepagane folded indian foreign minister, adhi kadha comedy ikkada Quote
anna_gari_maata Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, Mancode said: even 2 jets shot down, i dont care honestly, but french official accepted rafale was shot down, still thats okay but america chepagane folded indian foreign minister, adhi kadha comedy ikkada Again French official evado kooda telidu... west hand icchindi they themselves started this lying drama anyways India definitely folded. I wished we made a statement to the world, we just missed that opportunity by underestimating Pak. I will wait for the next best pm to correct history mistakes. Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, anna_gari_maata said: Again French official evado kooda telidu... west hand icchindi they themselves started this lying drama anyways India definitely folded. I wished we made a statement to the world, we just missed that opportunity by underestimating Pak. I will wait for the next best pm to correct history mistakes. even british army officer confirmed , Bathinda lo there is debris of indian jets https://trt.global/world/article/77ca5fc9b207 Quote
anna_gari_maata Posted May 10 Report Posted May 10 42 minutes ago, Mancode said: even british army officer confirmed , Bathinda lo there is debris of indian jets https://trt.global/world/article/77ca5fc9b207 Won't say much bro there are no substantial proofs ... I may believe when Sky news and Wion confirms. Ultimately emotions matter finally Quote
Mancode Posted May 10 Author Report Posted May 10 Just now, anna_gari_maata said: Won't say much bro there are no substantial proofs ... I may believe when Sky news and Wion confirms. Ultimately emotions matter finally pakistan suffered huge lossess too their terrorists are killed along with fighter jets, drones, UAV's ,one airbase drstroyed Quote
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