You Capitalists....

[narsayya]

[quote name='LeeHarveyOswald' timestamp='1363327638' post='1303427674']
@ Narasayya

Finally...I will support only communism , may be with some modifications to CM...chache varaku ade great ani nammutha...In a country like India where there are so many social and economic inequalities , I don't think promoting capitalism will erase all those things...India should be , for some time , under a Communist dictator's rule ! That's my gut feeling!
[/quote]

Because of varied castes, religions, a dictator can never rule India. He'll be crushed by alliances of castes against him. No one will care about his dictates, because he won't have an army like Stalin did.

India is a complex country, one that you don't seem to understand even after being born here

India has great potential, inspite of the inequalities. Before you go around bashing Hinduism, may be stop for a while, and try and understand the life of your maid, if you live in India and have one.

Communism, Hinduism will not solve people's problems. They are just economic and social systems. There's no system in the world which takes care of the weakest in society. but all systems claim to do so, except capitalism which is honest, and whose ideas built the world that today is.

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363328234' post='1303427689']

Because of varied castes, religions, a dictator can never rule India. He'll be crushed by alliances of castes against him. No one will care about his dictates, because he won't have an army like Stalin did.

India is a complex country, one that you don't seem to understand even after being born here

India has great potential, inspite of the inequalities. Before you go around bashing Hinduism, may be stop for a while, and try and understand the life of your maid, if you live in India and have one.

Communism, Hinduism will not solve people's problems. They are just economic and social systems. There's no system in the world which takes care of the weakest in society. but all systems claim to do so, except capitalism which is honest, and whose ideas built the world that today is.
[/quote]

It's very nice talking to ppl like you and believer...I do agree , there are flaws in each and every system...but , what my heart says , will be followed by my mind ! Can't stop my love towards Communism...I am not against to the complete system of Hinduism or Capitalism,I am against to the inequalities caused by them....I findCommunism as a better concept , because in Communism at least we don't have caste / religion barriers between the people !

[narsayya]

[quote name='LeeHarveyOswald' timestamp='1363328545' post='1303427697']

It's very nice talking to ppl like you and believer...I do agree , there are flaws in each and every system...but , what my heart says , will be followed by my mind ! Can't stop my love towards Communism...I am not against to the complete system of Hinduism or Capitalism,I am against to the inequalities caused by them....I findCommunism as a better concept , [b] because in Communism at least we don't have caste / religion barriers between the people[/b] !
[/quote]

Which is why communism won't work in India, atleast now. Lets see if capitalism breaks caste barriers and creates a majority proletariat class that isn't affiliated to any caste/relgion. Then perhaps revolution will happen. Communism is only a reaction, caste inequalities aren't reason enough forit.

Just for your information.. labour in the organised sector is paid pretty good these. Like say, Nokia pays 25,000rs on an average to its workers, with free pickups, drops, and medical facilities.

Only the construction sector has to keep up with the payscales. But I've interacted with some who tell me that they are paid daily wages at first, and then after a few months, become contracted employees making around 8k, most of which they save and send to their family back home. If you are skilled, you get paid twice or thrice of that, depending on your experience. In fact, I haven't heard of anybody getting less than 8k in Chennai. I'm yet to talk to people in Vizag coz I want to give myself enough time to understand the city and its people.

In Hyundai, the average pay is around 40k plus benefits.

So I don't see much exploitation of workers for communism to take hold.

[Truth_Believer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363329193' post='1303427711']
Which is why communism won't work in India, atleast now. Lets see if capitalism breaks caste barriers and creates a majority proletariat class that isn't affiliated to any caste/relgion. Then perhaps revolution will happen. Communism is only a reaction, caste inequalities aren't reason enough forit.

Just for your information.. labour in the organised sector is paid pretty good these. Like say, Nokia pays 25,000rs on an average to its workers, with free pickups, drops, and medical facilities.

Only the construction sector has to keep up with the payscales. But I've interacted with some who tell me that they are paid daily wages at first, and then after a few months, become contracted employees making around 8k, most of which they save and send to their family back home. If you are skilled, you get paid twice or thrice of that, depending on your experience. In fact, I haven't heard of anybody getting less than 8k in Chennai. I'm yet to talk to people in Vizag coz I want to give myself enough time to understand the city and its people.

In Hyundai, the average pay is around 40k plus benefits.

So I don't see much exploitation of workers for communism to take hold.
[/quote]

Seems like i missed the action on this topic.

[b]Narsayya[/b] - Probably i have seen very few people on this forum who can give balanced and knowledgeable opinions without getting to personal and biased propaganda. It was pleasure reading your posts and hope to see you participating more often.

Lee has given his version and beliefs on Communism and others have shown their inclination towards Capitalist tendencies. But whatever maybe right or wrong at least people are willing to accept the problems in 'isms' and trying to discuss a realistic approach without getting to each others throats. I only hope we don't end of promoting our own 'isms' into another cult following.
Always 'isms' have been created with good intentions but it is our human weakness (read Greed or Selfishness or Corruption) that has failed these 'isms'. I would say let live and let others live within the domain we believe in. Here is a clip i am fond of that gives a independent perspective on our behavior

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxDOYQEkjI[/media]

[narsayya]

[quote name='Believer' timestamp='1363335939' post='1303428134']
Seems like i missed the action on this topic.

[b]Narsayya[/b] - Probably i have seen very few people on this forum who can give balanced and knowledgeable opinions without getting to personal and biased propaganda. It was pleasure reading your posts and hope to see you participating more often.

Lee has given his version and beliefs on Communism and others have shown their inclination towards Capitalist tendencies. But whatever maybe right or wrong at least people are willing to accept the problems in 'isms' and trying to discuss a realistic approach without getting to each others throats. I only hope we don't end of promoting our own 'isms' into another cult following.
Always 'isms' have been created with good intentions but it is our human weakness (read Greed or Selfishness or Corruption) that has failed these 'isms'. I would say let live and let others live within the domain we believe in. Here is a clip i am fond of that gives a independent perspective on our behavior

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxDOYQEkjI[/media]
[/quote]

Believer, Thanks.

There's enough evidence from the developed world and from their response to crisis that ideology is no longer the driving force behind policy decisions. None of the isms seem to matter, but raw data analysis with the help of some models is what is guiding them.

Some of the models are outdated, some derivative. So there's lots of room for improvement, but the consensus is that 'free enterprise' (better term than capitalism) is the guiding force to prosperity and stability. When you let a man free to do anything he wishes within the constraints of constitution, he prospers and brings prosperity to the whole community, atleast until a level of income distribution is reached.

The role of govt itself has become distributing the tax money as equitably as possible and help keep up aggregate demand from tailing down. Govts abroad, no longer wish to be control of production, because it comes with a lot of headache, and they don't have the expertise for it. And also because the structure that would support national production is already taken down, with no legal leg to stand on.

lee's contention that the developed economies keep up their lifestyle by plundering 3rd world natural wealth is taken well. The blame should fall on 3rd world countries for letting them plunder, and not on capitalism, because it was capitalism that brought european economies to the stage they are today. Don't we want to see India at that stage, or are we happy to scrape barrels for morsels of food that might have stuck in our vessel.

Its funny to see govts in India falling over each other to tap themselves for 7.5%, 7% growth, when with the right policies India can grow at more than 10% for atleast a decade, simply because of our extraordinary population.

The recipes for economic success is very clear these days, unlike the hazy past when countries learnt the hard way with asian economic crisis. Simple rules are, invest in public education. Make it easy to start and close a business, pay govt employees well, iron out inconsistencies in legislature, judiciary. Keep up the rule of law.

But India learnt all the wrong lessons in the form of SEZs, especially after the current govt expanded SEZ programme and made it a running joke.

I'm myself scared of using India's financial markets and only have a fraction of money invested there because of govts haphazard policy, although there are enough chances to make a killing here. Most of my money is invested in Singapore, which is a lot more settled market.

You'll be surprised at how much money is outside India. The blame should lie on petty and stupid leaders who keep changing rules to favour their friends, and not on 'black money' abroad.

[Truth_Believer]

LTT for more opinions

[Truth_Believer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363338894' post='1303428183']

Believer, Thanks.

There's enough evidence from the developed world and from their response to crisis that ideology is no longer the driving force behind policy decisions. None of the isms seem to matter, but raw data analysis with the help of some models is what is guiding them.

Some of the models are outdated, some derivative. So there's lots of room for improvement, but the consensus is that 'free enterprise' (better term than capitalism) is the guiding force to prosperity and stability. When you let a man free to do anything he wishes within the constraints of constitution, he prospers and brings prosperity to the whole community, atleast until a level of income distribution is reached.

The role of govt itself has become distributing the tax money as equitably as possible and help keep up aggregate demand from tailing down. Govts abroad, no longer wish to be control of production, because it comes with a lot of headache, and they don't have the expertise for it. And also because the structure that would support national production is already taken down, with no legal leg to stand on.

lee's contention that the developed economies keep up their lifestyle by plundering 3rd world natural wealth is taken well. The blame should fall on 3rd world countries for letting them plunder, and not on capitalism, because it was capitalism that brought european economies to the stage they are today. Don't we want to see India at that stage, or are we happy to scrape barrels for morsels of food that might have stuck in our vessel.

Its funny to see govts in India falling over each other to tap themselves for 7.5%, 7% growth, when with the right policies India can grow at more than 10% for atleast a decade, simply because of our extraordinary population.

The recipes for economic success is very clear these days, unlike the hazy past when countries learnt the hard way with asian economic crisis. Simple rules are, invest in public education. Make it easy to start and close a business, pay govt employees well, iron out inconsistencies in legislature, judiciary. Keep up the rule of law.

But India learnt all the wrong lessons in the form of SEZs, especially after the current govt expanded SEZ programme and made it a running joke.

I'm myself scared of using India's financial markets and only have a fraction of money invested there because of govts haphazard policy, although there are enough chances to make a killing here. Most of my money is invested in Singapore, which is a lot more settled market.

You'll be surprised at how much money is outside India. The blame should lie on petty and stupid leaders who keep changing rules to favour their friends, and not on 'black money' abroad.
[/quote]

'[b]Haphazard[/b]' is the way of life in India now. I don't blame the politicians completely but people themselves are destroying the country with their own bias and prejudices while voting.

And also good to know about Singapore markets.

[posani]

inka rest tisuko...ivigo only labor produced non capitalist snacks tinu [img]http://www.nandamurifans.com/forum/uploads/gallery_8818_2_281352.gif[/img]

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363338894' post='1303428183']

Believer, Thanks.

There's enough evidence from the developed world and from their response to crisis that ideology is no longer the driving force behind policy decisions. None of the isms seem to matter, but raw data analysis with the help of some models is what is guiding them.

Some of the models are outdated, some derivative. So there's lots of room for improvement, but the consensus is that 'free enterprise' (better term than capitalism) is the guiding force to prosperity and stability. When you let a man free to do anything he wishes within the constraints of constitution, he prospers and brings prosperity to the whole community, atleast until a level of income distribution is reached.

The role of govt itself has become distributing the tax money as equitably as possible and help keep up aggregate demand from tailing down. Govts abroad, no longer wish to be control of production, because it comes with a lot of headache, and they don't have the expertise for it. And also because the structure that would support national production is already taken down, with no legal leg to stand on.

lee's contention that the developed economies keep up their lifestyle by plundering 3rd world natural wealth is taken well. The blame should fall on 3rd world countries for letting them plunder, and not on capitalism, because it was capitalism that brought european economies to the stage they are today. Don't we want to see India at that stage, or are we happy to scrape barrels for morsels of food that might have stuck in our vessel.

Its funny to see govts in India falling over each other to tap themselves for 7.5%, 7% growth, when with the right policies India can grow at more than 10% for atleast a decade, simply because of our extraordinary population.

The recipes for economic success is very clear these days, unlike the hazy past when countries learnt the hard way with asian economic crisis. Simple rules are, invest in public education. Make it easy to start and close a business, pay govt employees well, iron out inconsistencies in legislature, judiciary. Keep up the rule of law.

But India learnt all the wrong lessons in the form of SEZs, especially after the current govt expanded SEZ programme and made it a running joke.

[b]I'm myself scared of using India's financial markets and only have a fraction of money invested there[/b] because of govts haphazard policy, although there are enough chances to make a killing here. Most of my money is invested in Singapore, which is a lot more settled market.

You'll be surprised at how much money is outside India. The blame should lie on petty and stupid leaders who keep changing rules to favour their friends, and not on 'black money' abroad.
[/quote]

Interesting Nrasayya...r u a venture capitalist ?

[narsayya]

[quote name='LeeHarveyOswald' timestamp='1363562567' post='1303440541']

Interesting Nrasayya...r u a venture capitalist ?
[/quote]

I'm an industrialist, with a couple of factories in Chennai, and Mauritius. Now building one in Vizag. Electronic Manufacturing and design partner.

[gundubabu]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363572870' post='1303440941']


I'm an industrialist, with a couple of factories in Chennai, and Mauritius. Now building one in Vizag. Electronic Manufacturing and design partner.
[/quote]em factories

[narsayya]

[quote name='gundubabu' timestamp='1363573146' post='1303440952']
em factories
[/quote]
electronic component manufacturing.

[ChampakDas]

narcharu brothers...narsayya - clean, crisp, constructive thoughtful statements...
[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363328234' post='1303427689']

Because of varied castes, religions, a dictator can never rule India. He'll be crushed by alliances of castes against him. No one will care about his dictates, because he won't have an army like Stalin did.

India is a complex country, one that you don't seem to understand even after being born here

India has great potential, inspite of the inequalities. Before you go around bashing Hinduism, may be stop for a while, and try and understand the life of your maid, if you live in India and have one.

Communism, Hinduism will not solve people's problems. They are just economic and social systems. There's no system in the world which takes care of the weakest in society. but all systems claim to do so, except capitalism which is honest, and whose ideas built the world that today is.
[/quote]
[quote name='LeeHarveyOswald' timestamp='1363328545' post='1303427697']

It's very nice talking to ppl like you and believer...I do agree , there are flaws in each and every system...but , what my heart says , will be followed by my mind ! Can't stop my love towards Communism...I am not against to the complete system of Hinduism or Capitalism,I am against to the inequalities caused by them....I findCommunism as a better concept , because in Communism at least we don't have caste / religion barriers between the people !
[/quote]
[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363329193' post='1303427711']

Which is why communism won't work in India, atleast now. Lets see if capitalism breaks caste barriers and creates a majority proletariat class that isn't affiliated to any caste/relgion. Then perhaps revolution will happen. Communism is only a reaction, caste inequalities aren't reason enough forit.

Just for your information.. labour in the organised sector is paid pretty good these. Like say, Nokia pays 25,000rs on an average to its workers, with free pickups, drops, and medical facilities.

Only the construction sector has to keep up with the payscales. But I've interacted with some who tell me that they are paid daily wages at first, and then after a few months, become contracted employees making around 8k, most of which they save and send to their family back home. If you are skilled, you get paid twice or thrice of that, depending on your experience. In fact, I haven't heard of anybody getting less than 8k in Chennai. I'm yet to talk to people in Vizag coz I want to give myself enough time to understand the city and its people.

In Hyundai, the average pay is around 40k plus benefits.

So I don't see much exploitation of workers for communism to take hold.
[/quote]
[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363338894' post='1303428183']

Believer, Thanks.

There's enough evidence from the developed world and from their response to crisis that ideology is no longer the driving force behind policy decisions. None of the isms seem to matter, but raw data analysis with the help of some models is what is guiding them.

Some of the models are outdated, some derivative. So there's lots of room for improvement, but the consensus is that 'free enterprise' (better term than capitalism) is the guiding force to prosperity and stability. When you let a man free to do anything he wishes within the constraints of constitution, he prospers and brings prosperity to the whole community, atleast until a level of income distribution is reached.

The role of govt itself has become distributing the tax money as equitably as possible and help keep up aggregate demand from tailing down. Govts abroad, no longer wish to be control of production, because it comes with a lot of headache, and they don't have the expertise for it. And also because the structure that would support national production is already taken down, with no legal leg to stand on.

lee's contention that the developed economies keep up their lifestyle by plundering 3rd world natural wealth is taken well. The blame should fall on 3rd world countries for letting them plunder, and not on capitalism, because it was capitalism that brought european economies to the stage they are today. Don't we want to see India at that stage, or are we happy to scrape barrels for morsels of food that might have stuck in our vessel.

Its funny to see govts in India falling over each other to tap themselves for 7.5%, 7% growth, when with the right policies India can grow at more than 10% for atleast a decade, simply because of our extraordinary population.

The recipes for economic success is very clear these days, unlike the hazy past when countries learnt the hard way with asian economic crisis. Simple rules are, invest in public education. Make it easy to start and close a business, pay govt employees well, iron out inconsistencies in legislature, judiciary. Keep up the rule of law.

But India learnt all the wrong lessons in the form of SEZs, especially after the current govt expanded SEZ programme and made it a running joke.

I'm myself scared of using India's financial markets and only have a fraction of money invested there because of govts haphazard policy, although there are enough chances to make a killing here. Most of my money is invested in Singapore, which is a lot more settled market.

You'll be surprised at how much money is outside India. The blame should lie on petty and stupid leaders who keep changing rules to favour their friends, and not on 'black money' abroad.
[/quote]

[ChampakDas]

definitely one of the greatest threads I have seen in AFDB

[ChampakDas]

bold: why is it so? Certainly, it is more of free market centric and the number is surprisingly increasing then what's wrong with that?
[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1363338894' post='1303428183']

Believer, Thanks.

There's enough evidence from the developed world and from their response to crisis that ideology is no longer the driving force behind policy decisions. None of the isms seem to matter, but raw data analysis with the help of some models is what is guiding them.

Some of the models are outdated, some derivative. So there's lots of room for improvement, but the consensus is that 'free enterprise' (better term than capitalism) is the guiding force to prosperity and stability. When you let a man free to do anything he wishes within the constraints of constitution, he prospers and brings prosperity to the whole community, atleast until a level of income distribution is reached.

The role of govt itself has become distributing the tax money as equitably as possible and help keep up aggregate demand from tailing down. Govts abroad, no longer wish to be control of production, because it comes with a lot of headache, and they don't have the expertise for it. And also because the structure that would support national production is already taken down, with no legal leg to stand on.

lee's contention that the developed economies keep up their lifestyle by plundering 3rd world natural wealth is taken well. The blame should fall on 3rd world countries for letting them plunder, and not on capitalism, because it was capitalism that brought european economies to the stage they are today. Don't we want to see India at that stage, or are we happy to scrape barrels for morsels of food that might have stuck in our vessel.

Its funny to see govts in India falling over each other to tap themselves for 7.5%, 7% growth, when with the right policies India can grow at more than 10% for atleast a decade, simply because of our extraordinary population.

The recipes for economic success is very clear these days, unlike the hazy past when countries learnt the hard way with asian economic crisis. Simple rules are, invest in public education. Make it easy to start and close a business, pay govt employees well, iron out inconsistencies in legislature, judiciary. Keep up the rule of law.

[size=5][b]But India learnt all the wrong lessons in the form of SEZs, especially after the current govt expanded SEZ programme and made it a running joke.[/b][/size]

I'm myself scared of using India's financial markets and only have a fraction of money invested there because of govts haphazard policy, although there are enough chances to make a killing here. Most of my money is invested in Singapore, which is a lot more settled market.

You'll be surprised at how much money is outside India. The blame should lie on petty and stupid leaders who keep changing rules to favour their friends, and not on 'black money' abroad.
[/quote]