Calling Narasayya,ukku Manishi Regarding Disintegration Of Ussr...

[narsayya]

[quote name='BobbyFischer' timestamp='1366674416' post='1303648401']
and collapse of Communism , what really happened in Russia from 1917-1991...Can you please throw some light on this...I have my own set of arguements to come up with...
[/quote]

Split of the USSR is not the "collapse of communism". Its just split of USSR.

Communism as an idea will never collapse, perhaps will morph into similar or better ideas, because there'll always be an underclass that are on the edge of provocation. But some ideas of communism have been discarded as not useful. Centralization of production is probably the central to the idea of communism that has been thoroughly discredited by the fall of USSR.

Also several socialist ideas found their way into capitalist countries, ones with huge resources. For example, social security systems, universal health care, etc.. Even minimum wages was a socialist idea.

Its a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism and Protectionism that keeps the world economy together, give and take a few hiccups.

There are several theories to the split of the USSR, including the mammoth state that couldn't keep up with its public spending, unnecessary wars in Afghan, dispute on allocation of Ukraine gas fields.

In the end, I can only conclude communism is not the 'uniting' force that you make it out to be. It failed to keep all these different countries together.

It's interesting to note that our first prime minister Nehru, himself an ardent admirer of Stalin, tried to replicate the model in India, with disastrous consequences.

Why did Socialism fail in india? Several reasons, but most important reasons are : India's diversity and lack of domestic resources to tap into (especially crude oil).

It'll fail again in India, unless there's some kind of pact between different communities, or if everyone lets go of their community (unlikely in India), with large amounts of crude oil (or any other energy source) discovery in/around Indian shores.

Contrary to what you think, Casteism is not a problem, not atleast as big as you deem it to be. The problem is not having enough for everyone, which creates predators and the hunted

Communism is not a solution to India's problem. It's just another idea that has been tried and has not delivered. What India needs is not an idea, but a stroke of luck. Like how Arabs had.

[PARAMANANDAM]

mukka ardam aithe ottu
[img]http://i.imgflip.com/pe3n.gif[/img]

[cherlapalli_jailer]

[quote name='BezawadaBablu' timestamp='1366715336' post='1303649695']
good how are you anna hows job going
[/quote]
i am doing good
My job is cool
How r u?

[remobabu]

[quote name='BobbyFischer' timestamp='1366690676' post='1303649146']

joke salle gani

In my mind, the difference between capitalist and communist systems is that socialism has been done incorrectly many times and resulted in repression, but capitalism has been done how it is supposed to be and is still repressive.
[/quote]

ante ippuduuuuu ma say ledaaaa nuv cheppukuntuu velthane untavaaa.. [img]http://i.imgflip.com/pe3n.gif[/img]

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1366713464' post='1303649659']
You are making leaps in logic here. Nuvvu raasindhaniki, nee conclusion ki more than three degrees of separation undi

communism, capitalism gurinchi matlade tappudu, fundamentalism (especially religious) is unnecessary to the debate. a community can be completely religious, ethnically clean minorities and practice communism after that. It is theoretically possible.

So first, nuvvu capitalism ni, religious fundamentalism tho equate cheyyadam aapu.

nuvvu mari ekkuva social studies terms vaadithe I can't understand the debate. I'm a lowly physicist by training. Simple terms use chesthe better.

From what I understand, current capitalist system is favourable to only one group of people. Its not the super-rich(there are very few and they matter very little), its the retirees, or ones who invest in funds (mostly western retirees). One of the solution is to shoot people, or leave them to die without subsidised health care after they cross 65/70(Its already done in India, should do it in western countries too).
[/quote]

I do agree...fundamentalism is not an economic theory unlike Capitaism and Communism..that was an answer to other guys...nenu a priority cheppindi Indian political parties lo vote chese basis meeda... Capitalism , fundamentalism are entirely differenct concepts..I have no doubt in that !



If Communist and Capital systems are implemented with out flaw , nenu okate chebtha...Communist vadu health care kinda anni rakala diseases ki govt treatment ippisthadu...Capitalism vadu konni rakala diseases ki matrame treatment antadu , oka level datina vatini govt bare cheyaledu antadu...

Equality anedi undadu Capitalistic system lo...nenu emphasize chesthundi dani meede...

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1366716856' post='1303649703']

Split of the USSR is not the "collapse of communism". Its just split of USSR.

Communism as an idea will never collapse, perhaps will morph into similar or better ideas, because there'll always be an underclass that are on the edge of provocation. But some ideas of communism have been discarded as not useful. Centralization of production is probably the central to the idea of communism that has been thoroughly discredited by the fall of USSR.

Also several socialist ideas found their way into capitalist countries, ones with huge resources. For example, social security systems, universal health care, etc.. Even minimum wages was a socialist idea.

Its a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism and Protectionism that keeps the world economy together, give and take a few hiccups.

There are several theories to the split of the USSR, including the mammoth state that couldn't keep up with its public spending, unnecessary wars in Afghan, dispute on allocation of Ukraine gas fields.

In the end, I can only conclude communism is not the 'uniting' force that you make it out to be. It failed to keep all these different countries together.

It's interesting to note that our first prime minister Nehru, himself an ardent admirer of Stalin, tried to replicate the model in India, with disastrous consequences.

Why did Socialism fail in india? Several reasons, but most important reasons are : India's diversity and lack of domestic resources to tap into (especially crude oil).

It'll fail again in India, unless there's some kind of pact between different communities, or if everyone lets go of their community (unlikely in India), with large amounts of crude oil (or any other energy source) discovery in/around Indian shores.

Contrary to what you think, Casteism is not a problem, not atleast as big as you deem it to be. The problem is not having enough for everyone, which creates predators and the hunted

Communism is not a solution to India's problem. It's just another idea that has been tried and has not delivered. What India needs is not an idea, but a stroke of luck. Like how Arabs had.
[/quote]

meeru matladina vatillo 90% vatiki na daggara answer ledu and I agree with you as well...meru annatlu Indian system anedi mixed economic system , ade correct India ki... nenu oppukunta e mata matram...but Monteksingh Ahluwalia lanti vallu matram free markets peru tho , Mixed economic system ni capitalism vaipu parigesthunnaru , Communist lu ane vallu poor people ajenda ni gurthu cheyataniki eppudu undali India lo...lekapothe India INKA darunam ga tayaravuthundi !

[narsayya]

[quote name='BobbyFischer' timestamp='1366761991' post='1303653280']

meeru matladina vatillo 90% vatiki na daggara answer ledu and I agree with you as well...meru annatlu Indian system anedi mixed economic system , ade correct India ki... nenu oppukunta e mata matram...but Monteksingh Ahluwalia lanti vallu matram free markets peru tho , Mixed economic system ni capitalism vaipu parigesthunnaru , Communist lu ane vallu poor people ajenda ni gurthu cheyataniki eppudu undali India lo...lekapothe India INKA darunam ga tayaravuthundi !
[/quote]

Indian system, is not tilted towards capitalism, but heavily towards socialism.

The capital controls in the Indian economy is staggering, and is heavily biased against the smaller businessmen with no political connection.

Again India di mixed economy kooda kaadu. It's called crony capitalism. I'd be happy if govt lets me play market, and then taxes me a share of my earnings, that it can distribute to keep up money circulation.

Govt's job is to play the role of facilitator in the economy, not a dictator.

Indian govt makes up a mountain of rules, mostly to prevent people from realising their goals, and then out of the blue gives their political lackeys free pass in the system (we call this scam). But the real scam is how the govt, puts so many useless rules into the system without much thought.

Montek Singh is a product of the system. He's not a capitalist. He might feel insulted if you say that to his face

Communist didn't achieve much in bengal (poverty rates, malnutrition are as bad or some cases worse than rest of India). In kerala they did, but kerala has enough resources to follow wasteful policies. Can the rest of India follow kerala? Will kerala be kind enough to spare water atleast to neighbouring TN?

Enno issues unnayi. Nuvvemo communism, capitalism antu simple ga vadistunnavu.

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1366771239' post='1303653802']

Indian system, is not tilted towards capitalism, but heavily towards socialism.

The capital controls in the Indian economy is staggering, and is heavily biased against the smaller businessmen with no political connection.

Again India di mixed economy kooda kaadu. It's called crony capitalism. I'd be happy if govt lets me play market, and then taxes me a share of my earnings, that it can distribute to keep up money circulation.

Govt's job is to play the role of facilitator in the economy, not a dictator.

Indian govt makes up a mountain of rules, mostly to prevent people from realising their goals, and then out of the blue gives their political lackeys free pass in the system (we call this scam). But the real scam is how the govt, puts so many useless rules into the system without much thought.

Montek Singh is a product of the system. He's not a capitalist. He might feel insulted if you say that to his face

Communist didn't achieve much in bengal (poverty rates, malnutrition are as bad or some cases worse than rest of India). In kerala they did, but kerala has enough resources to follow wasteful policies. Can the rest of India follow kerala? Will kerala be kind enough to spare water atleast to neighbouring TN?

Enno issues unnayi. Nuvvemo communism, capitalism antu simple ga vadistunnavu.
[/quote]


Single economic / social theory is not solution for India's problems ani antunnaru meeru...I can see the future of India with this much diversity , prathi vadu regionalism / fundamentalism / linguistic barriers ni cause ga chooinchi party lu petti 5-10 seats sampadinchi dantho govt ni black mail chestha untadu...

Is parliamentary democracy a right system for India ? Janala ni kulam , matham ani vidagotti vote bank lu ga tayaru cheskotam lo anni parties success ayyayi...Do you believe democracy will be the solution for this ?

India lo ippudu unna ye communist aina white collar communist ye...Kerala / WB edaina sare...People's revolution anedi kavali both on economic and social fronts...Political parties lo ippatiki Upper caste la domination undi which even you can't deny!

My support for communism is just because , inni diversities ni ardam cheskuni advance avatam anedi janam valla kani pani.vallu ardam cheskoleka kadu valla ni emotions lo unchuthunnaru politicinas... Any kind of liberal economic / social theory e problems ki solution chooinchadu ani strong opinion...Unlike other countries mana daggara evo 1 or 2 rival communities levu...prathi state ki prathi state tho godave...North Eastern states vallu aithe they don't even consider themselves as Indians...What you are telling is , be liberal and be choosy which the politicians will not do...

[narsayya]

[quote name='BobbyFischer' timestamp='1366772416' post='1303653888']


Single economic / social theory is not solution for India's problems ani antunnaru meeru...I can see the future of India with this much diversity , prathi vadu regionalism / fundamentalism / linguistic barriers ni cause ga chooinchi party lu petti 5-10 seats sampadinchi dantho govt ni black mail chestha untadu...

Is parliamentary democracy a right system for India ? Janala ni kulam , matham ani vidagotti vote bank lu ga tayaru cheskotam lo anni parties success ayyayi...Do you believe democracy will be the solution for this ?

India lo ippudu unna ye communist aina white collar communist ye...Kerala / WB edaina sare...People's revolution anedi kavali both on economic and social fronts...Political parties lo ippatiki Upper caste la domination undi which even you can't deny!

My support for communism is just because , inni diversities ni ardam cheskuni advance avatam anedi janam valla kani pani.vallu ardam cheskoleka kadu valla ni emotions lo unchuthunnaru politicinas... Any kind of liberal economic / social theory e problems ki solution chooinchadu ani strong opinion...Unlike other countries mana daggara evo 1 or 2 rival communities levu...prathi state ki prathi state tho godave...North Eastern states vallu aithe they don't even consider themselves as Indians...What you are telling is , be liberal and be choosy which the politicians will not do...
[/quote]


I can understand your argument. Diversity anedi, its unavoidable. Repu, US ki kooda ide paristhithe. It's already underway with the election of Obama.

Australia is a white majority, and no one wants to go there. I lived there for 4 yrs. useless place to live (but that's another debate) But just look at their economy, and how its easy to open and close a business (most of them will be flops anyway, except mining). Look at their redistribution schemes. India can try to have something like that.

parliamentary democracy can be modified to suit indian context. I have an idea where all castes have equal say in policy making. It's still under development. I agree there's a disproportionate representation of upper castes in every sphere. But the correction is going on, and their influence is decreasing. And btw, communists la lo kooda upper caste valle ekkuva unnaru

revolution kaavalante, you have to wait. Things are always bound to get worse before they get better and then worse again. when majority of Indians are finding their identity, living a decent life (barring the problem of inflation), you can't think of a revolution.

Maximum they can go is for Anna Hazare type of revolution which achieves nothing.

If you are worried about castes forming strong coalitions and depriving others of benefits, its time to cut them down to size by restricting the power of the govt that helps these castes.

Sagam daridram india lo because of lack of data. data collection, analysis of every government policy or entitlement will give more power to people to demand fairer policies.

Data + relentless search for energy sources will help India.

btw, state-state godavalu emi antha serious kadhu. Even when tamils were beaten in mah, killed in kartka, there wasn't much backlash. Edo water issues unnayi. Adi prathi district madhyalo, village madhyalo kooda unnade. No state has challenged planning commission on sharing of central funds, where TN, MH, Guj, HARYANA, give a lot more than what they get in return.

Nothing that can't be solved with good policy.

[jbourne]

i have a straight question for u guys is that u type all these things based on u r findings or u jus use tools to get the matter posted here

[narsayya]

[quote name='jbourne' timestamp='1366780946' post='1303654342']
i have a straight question for u guys is that u type all these things based on u r findings or u jus use tools to get the matter posted here
[/quote]

Didn't get your question.

I formed my opinions based on some readings, talking to people.

Peddaga research emi cheyyale. But I did read a few papers in social studies, on economic policy. Most of them use outdated models, some even skip math totally. So I contest their findings.

I'm willing to put my hypothesis to the mathematical test. I admit I haven't done it. Right now, I'm saying that all their models are wrong. I'm not sure mine is right, though.

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1366781521' post='1303654370']

Didn't get your question.

I formed my opinions based on some readings, talking to people.

Peddaga research emi cheyyale. But I did read a few papers in social studies, on economic policy. Most of them use outdated models, some even skip math totally. So I contest their findings.

[b]I'm willing to put my hypothesis to the mathematical test. I admit I haven't done it. Right now, I'm saying that all their models are wrong. I'm not sure mine is right, though.[/b]
[/quote]

meeru ee range lo theory develop chesthante , iga naku meetho argue chese scene , range ledu...nenu basical ga capital , communist manifesto , capitalism and globalisation evil effects , confessions of an economic hit man lanti books chadivi , kontha world bank data ni follow ayi form cheskunna opinions...am basically a s/w analyst anthe...meeru e area lo expertise...I am giving up!

Modi vishayam lo nenu eppatiki na stand marchukolenu...Advani is a straight forward person anpisthadi , but age is not on his side...Modi 2002 varaku oka laga unnadu , tarvatha BJP lo lack of leadership and Gujarath valla vachina credit ni use cheskuni aiming on PM seat anpisthandi...Naku Modi meeda unna opinion change avalante time padthadi...for me , he is an opportunist as of now!

[jbourne]

[quote name='narsayya' timestamp='1366781521' post='1303654370']

Didn't get your question.

I formed my opinions based on some readings, talking to people.

Peddaga research emi cheyyale. But I did read a few papers in social studies, on economic policy. Most of them use outdated models, some even skip math totally. So I contest their findings.

I'm willing to put my hypothesis to the mathematical test. I admit I haven't done it. Right now, I'm saying that all their models are wrong. I'm not sure mine is right, though.
[/quote]
copy paste chesina matter or u typed it ani asked in an indirect way


I wonder the command u have in english, to my knowledge I think u r an technical writer...

I could not resist but u rocked brother the analysis n the language presented

bro I remember u that u were brought up in chennai if i am not wrong u r from vizag right

Civils ki try chesinav ani anipistundii nee postlaloo

since ages I never saw these kind of posts in DB


I have a sincere suggestion bro y dont u try to pen down the things n publish
I may not be of a technical help but monetarily I can help u out in getting a book out

the outlook is so good rather being inclined on topic u balanced in u r debate hope i get to see more posts from u r side

[jbourne]

[quote name='BobbyFischer' timestamp='1366781900' post='1303654390']

meeru ee range lo theory develop chesthante , iga naku meetho argue chese scene , range ledu...nenu basical ga capital , communist manifesto , capitalism and globalisation evil effects , confessions of an economic hit man lanti books chadivi , kontha world bank data ni follow ayi form cheskunna opinions...am basically a s/w analyst anthe...meeru e area lo expertise...I am giving up!

Modi vishayam lo nenu eppatiki na stand marchukolenu...Advani is a straight forward person anpisthadi , but age is not on his side...Modi 2002 varaku oka laga unnadu , tarvatha BJP lo lack of leadership and Gujarath valla vachina credit ni use cheskuni aiming on PM seat anpisthandi...Naku Modi meeda unna opinion change avalante time padthadi...for me , he is an opportunist as of now!
[/quote]


yeah might be he is an opportunist brother Y dont u give it a try

I think u dont want to give up the phrase that u have learnt in childhood

"know devil is better than unknown god"

[BobbyFischer]

[quote name='jbourne' timestamp='1366782195' post='1303654399']


yeah might be he is an opportunist brother Y dont u give it a try

I think u dont want to give up the phrase that u have learnt in childhood

"know devil is better than unknown god"
[/quote]

telisi telisi hatred speech lu ichina vadini encourage cheyatam aithe na valla kadu...