quaysideGuy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 You can make the same argument for every state to varying degrees. TamilNadu still has a better economy than almost all other states in India. more than the 'pro-industry' states you mention, like Gujarat, MadhyaPradesh, etc. Isn't it the job of politicians to connect to the normal guy, rather than preaching to him about this policy and that? TamilNadu has the unique distinction of lowering the bar in everything, including educational standards just so majority doesn't get left behind. It is a good data point to compare and contrast differing governance styles within a country. If after 30yrs TamilNadu falls behind rest of India, I will agree that 'development oriented' politicians were right after all. the jury is still out on this subject. as if other's are incorruptible. Guj's GDP is $111,669 compared to TN's $97,970...Gujarat's per capita is 3X more than national average. It is growing at 12% per year. TN inspite of having Thorium reserves, IT exports, a bigger port and a thriving tourism industry is still behind Gujarat in terms of GDP and growth rate. Everybody knows TN has been an industrialized state even before independence whereas Gujarat's growth story began only after 2002 (after Modi took over).
VizagRocks Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Guj's GDP is $111,669 compared to TN's $97,970...Gujarat's per capita is 3X more than national average. It is growing at 12% per year.TN inspite of having Thorium reserves, IT exports, a bigger port and a thriving tourism industry is still behind Gujarat in terms of GDP and growth rate. Everybody knows TN has been an industrialized state even before independence whereas Gujarat's growth story began only after 2002 (after Modi took over). anything to make your point, eh? :)
quaysideGuy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Isn't it the job of politicians to connect to the normal guy, rather than preaching to him about this policy and that? TamilNadu has the unique distinction of lowering the bar in everything, including educational standards just so majority doesn't get left behind. What's this "connecting" all about? Do you think they are unaware of the common man's problems? There are 3 types of politicians.. 1) Caretakers who like to maintain the status quo. They are aware of the problem and solution but are not gutsy enough to implement as they fear backlash by going against popular opinion. The signature accomplishments of caretaker politicians always leave the status quo power structure and constituencies firmly in place; Paniki aaharam, Indira Awas Yojna, etc of UPA are an excellent example. tgey have been existing under different names throughout the history without any results. 2) Practical leaders who use their political capital to push through long-term. Often under-appreciated in their own time. They may only be appreciated long after they have retired or pass away. They are sometimes bound by ideology but never let it get involved in their governance. They build monuments, create infrastructure, take little risks but make sure it doesn't affect their political career. Modi, CBN & KCR fall under this category. 3) Visionary transformers who can change the values of the populace and thereby transform the political landscape. This rare breed is not ideological, as ideologies are what create and solidify the conflicts and battle lines. Either those with these leadership skills are avoiding politics or the voters are rejecting them in favor of caretakers who are incapable of challenging political powerful constituencies or finding common ground for desperately needed systemic reforms. Example: JP I don't know what is it that contributes to your obsession for a mediocre state like TN. Seriously, I don't think they are any better than KA, TS or AP.
quaysideGuy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 anything to make your point, eh? :) anything but farce
VizagRocks Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 What's this "connecting" all about? Do you think they are unaware of the common man's problems? There are 3 types of politicians.. 1) Caretakers who like to maintain the status quo. They are aware of the problem and solution but are not gutsy enough to implement as they fear backlash by going against popular opinion. The signature accomplishments of caretaker politicians always leave the status quo power structure and constituencies firmly in place; Paniki aaharam, Indira Awas Yojna, etc of UPA are an excellent example. tgey have been existing under different names throughout the history without any results. 2) Practical leaders who use their political capital to push through long-term. Often under-appreciated in their own time. They may only be appreciated long after they have retired or pass away. They are sometimes bound by ideology but never let it get involved in their governance. They build monuments, create infrastructure, take little risks but make sure it doesn't affect their political career. Modi, CBN & KCR fall under this category. 3) Visionary transformers who can change the values of the populace and thereby transform the political landscape. This rare breed is not ideological, as ideologies are what create and solidify the conflicts and battle lines. Either those with these leadership skills are avoiding politics or the voters are rejecting them in favor of caretakers who are incapable of challenging political powerful constituencies or finding common ground for desperately needed systemic reforms. Example: JP I don't know what is it that contributes to your obsession for a mediocre state like TN. Seriously, I don't think they are better than KA, TS or AP. TN is a mediocre state. yes.But what makes you proclaim KA, TS and AP as better than TN? KA even after more than a decade of Bangalore magic, still trails behind TN in everything.TS, AP are new and need more time to see how their policies pan out.like I said, TN is a mediocre state, by design. Its students are mediocre. Its exam systems are mediocre. AP/TG students will kick TN's arse in any competitve exam, definitely. But still TN is doing better than almost all states in India.And no, Gujarat doesn't have a higher gdp compared to TN. or even per capita. In terms of social indicators of health, TN is way ahead of all states in India, except Kerala.don't be so quick to dismiss TN story. The battle of ideologies is not yet won or lost. If nothing, TN provides a good counterpoint to the prevailing rush on 'development politics'. Unless you think every state should follow a single simple political ideology.
VizagRocks Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 What's this "connecting" all about? Do you think they are unaware of the common man's problems? There are 3 types of politicians.. 1) Caretakers who like to maintain the status quo. They are aware of the problem and solution but are not gutsy enough to implement as they fear backlash by going against popular opinion. The signature accomplishments of caretaker politicians always leave the status quo power structure and constituencies firmly in place; Paniki aaharam, Indira Awas Yojna, etc of UPA are an excellent example. tgey have been existing under different names throughout the history without any results. 2) Practical leaders who use their political capital to push through long-term. Often under-appreciated in their own time. They may only be appreciated long after they have retired or pass away. They are sometimes bound by ideology but never let it get involved in their governance. They build monuments, create infrastructure, take little risks but make sure it doesn't affect their political career. Modi, CBN & KCR fall under this category. 3) Visionary transformers who can change the values of the populace and thereby transform the political landscape. This rare breed is not ideological, as ideologies are what create and solidify the conflicts and battle lines. Either those with these leadership skills are avoiding politics or the voters are rejecting them in favor of caretakers who are incapable of challenging political powerful constituencies or finding common ground for desperately needed systemic reforms. Example: JP politicians simply reflect the times and the society they live in and serve. nothing more.if KCR is a 'development politician', it is what he thinks his constituency wants. He's not being brave or going against some established political thought.apart from technocrats - politicians with industrial/urban planning experience, rest of politicians are quite mediocre technically. even though they may use big terms to capture the imagination of the gullible among the educated.
VizagRocks Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 In fact TS is probably the only state that can match TN in the near future.KA has no chance. AP, may be, although I don't know what CBN has to do.
VizagRocks Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 capitalism doesn't need pro-industry politicians. It only needs strong institutions. like banks, courts, urban dev authorities, etc. without all these, being pro-industry is pointless. boasting about it is the height of narcissistic behaviour.
shaw183 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Karl Marx thought the social injustice leads to Communism>socialism>Democracy..but it didn't applied anywhere...USSR followed in Communism and it didn't fall into next level so called socialism ...it went into dictatorship and todays its under utter fiasco and same with China...communism lead to quasi dictatorship and today its a 100% capitalistic nation and its succeeded.So Communism proven its has two faces.. in my view probably communism is just like a fuel to start a huge ideology in society without knowing the end-results. Karl marx ideology ni thapu ane anta dairyam naku ledu kani...Karl Marx kala kana social-equality ela sadyam ayitado naku ardam kaledu epatiki..how can a shoe company equate the benefits among all working class without securing their profits for logistics,HR and other entities. coming back to the title of this thread, emergency declared by Indira Gandhi proved as how fascism lied under psuedo-democracy which erupted when time comes..this emergency lead an open option to kill whom ever u want ...support chesina communist leaders kuda poyaru..n it continued till the last state n India govt like operation green hunt.
siru Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 BJP or the sangh isn't right at all. the difference between the right and the left is crystal clear. and all parties in India come under the left to varying degrees. a right party should focus on methods rather than outcomes. a left party will focus on outcomes than on methods.Ok, i thought left or right is based on the part'ys idelogies Bjp right for its hindutva Communists left for no religion
quaysideGuy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Ok, i thought left or right is based on the part'ys idelogies Bjp right for its hindutva Communists left for no religion no religion kanna.. goda meeda pilli anadam correct
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