Rafael scam goes international..

[ParmQ]

4 hours ago, Android_Halwa said:

576 crores ki evadra modern fighter jet ammedi ? 

Evadra asalu ie d’alto figures esedi ? 

Kaali jet engine ae ayitadi ra 200-300 crores. Compare the price with euro fighter typhoon, Rafael,Su-30, f-16 and then you would the average price for jet. 

Mazaak ayipoindi...500 crore ki jet anta..! 

Neeku akku pookku theda thelvadhu man. 576 Cr is per jet is when 126 jets are bought and most of them are made by HAL (except some 10 or 15). More than 100 jets India lo manufacturing ante 5K Cr pedathava? Initial bidding was for 10 billion USD for 126 jets with ToT. Go read UPA-2 bidding info after finalizing Rafale. Neeku Mars mission ISRO chesthe entha ayyindhi?

[Desi_guy]

28 minutes ago, ParmQ said:

Neeku akku pookku theda thelvadhu man. 576 Cr is per jet is when 126 jets are bought and most of them are made by HAL (except some 10 or 15). More than 100 jets India lo manufacturing ante 5K Cr pedathava? Initial bidding was for 10 billion USD for 126 jets with ToT. Go read UPA-2 bidding info after finalizing Rafale. Neeku Mars mission ISRO chesthe entha ayyindhi?

12 Billion was the quoted price of 126 Rafale in 2008 which escalated to 20 Billion by 2014, when congress shortlisted the fighter and that too (no weapons package, no replenishment and recovery base, no warehouse, no guarantee on supplies and availability etc etc).

Current 7.8 Billion for 36 Rafale consists of below :

maintenance for 10 years
attrition compensation
75% availability
meteor BVR,SCALP missile
AESA radar
Engine upgrade, without mileage loss
Sand ingestion damage handling
Uprated weapon load
50% offset, meaning 3.9 billion to be invested back in india.
When the deal was opened by Modi and Hollande, French opened up with a price of 12 Billion for 36 rafales, It was cut down to 8.6 Billion by Indian government, a further cut was asked by defence ministers and the price was fixed at 7.8 billions.

People need to understand that UPA was simply buying 126 rafales for 20 billions without any weapons package which when added up takes the number to some 36 Billion.

[Android_Halwa]

28 minutes ago, ParmQ said:

Neeku akku pookku theda thelvadhu man. 576 Cr is per jet is when 126 jets are bought and most of them are made by HAL (except some 10 or 15). More than 100 jets India lo manufacturing ante 5K Cr pedathava? Initial bidding was for 10 billion USD for 126 jets with ToT. Go read UPA-2 bidding info after finalizing Rafale. Neeku Mars mission ISRO chesthe entha ayyindhi?

ISRO ni nuv Dassault ki compare chesthava ? If Dassault was also a research organization, Rafael would barely cost us half of what we are paying now...kani Dassault is a listed company and it needs to make profits...! 

Compare organges with oranges man...

[soodhilodaaram]

48 minutes ago, ParmQ said:

Neeku akku pookku theda thelvadhu man. 576 Cr is per jet is when 126 jets are bought and most of them are made by HAL (except some 10 or 15). More than 100 jets India lo manufacturing ante 5K Cr pedathava? Initial bidding was for 10 billion USD for 126 jets with ToT. Go read UPA-2 bidding info after finalizing Rafale. Neeku Mars mission ISRO chesthe entha ayyindhi?

UPA bidding rules were going nowhere buddy, they had 10 yrs to complete the acquisition process, they could not move an inch,  Defence agencies were clearly putting pressure on MoD to acquire jets quickly as the strength dwindled to 32 squadrons  from 42 sanctioned

any sane mind can clearly understand UPA Def minister  Antony/Sonia/Congress were focused on kickbacks and was not letting the deal happen

using the UPA era rules for eternal future is useless and futile

Jet engine technology will never be shared to other countries, HAL at best assembles planes based on training they get from Russia, go and check their website, it will be very clear to you, they boast about manufacturing rubber fuel tanks as if they invented them, they have no patents at all, it sarkari system at best wasting taxpayers money that can be efficiently managed well at low cost by private players

US Military industrial complex is all controlled by private players, did you ever heard about government agencies manufacturing defence equipment in US, never.. DoD works with private players, government does the research  (DARPA) on requirements and give the funding to private players to develop prototypes, DoD decides which ones to mass manufacture by the same private players

now stop ranting and tell me which private players exist in india other than TATA, Mahindra, Reliance

HMT, Pragyna Tools,, IDPL, BEL and many more Government enterprise undevi if your eve remember or do some research..all vanished because state stopped supporting their inefficiency.. HAL survived because governments in the past played safe with privatizing defense.. now so many areas are already privatized.. defense privatization is no longer a threat to anyone

GTRE (gas turbine research establishment) based in bangalore has been developing kaveri engine since 1954.. while they made progress, its not fast enough to be used for LCA, LCA has GE engines now), have you heard about growing crystals that are used for jet engine fans, read about how advanced knowledge base and research it takes

telavaka pote nuvvu musuko.. telisinatlu buildup ivvaka

 

[Android_Halwa]

41 minutes ago, ParmQ said:

Neeku akku pookku theda thelvadhu man. 576 Cr is per jet is when 126 jets are bought and most of them are made by HAL (except some 10 or 15). More than 100 jets India lo manufacturing ante 5K Cr pedathava? Initial bidding was for 10 billion USD for 126 jets with ToT. Go read UPA-2 bidding info after finalizing Rafale. Neeku Mars mission ISRO chesthe entha ayyindhi?

Mars mission ni, France lo oka private company chesthe entha avutadi okasari estimate cheyochu kada...

this is called comparision. ISRO, NAL,HAL ni Dassault,EADS ki compare cheyadam is silly and stupid.

[Android_Halwa]

Kaveri engine was such a dud man....they did progress but that was not enough for present requirements. LCA itself is lighter but engine is not efficient and they have to again be in the market for engine suppliers. 

LCA is indigenously developed. Not every part is manufactured. Avionics in Israel, Helmet display by Israel, engine from GE, lot of other components from other countries and finally assembled in india. 

It took about 40 years to accomplish this task and I do not call this one as accomplishment. I think the present capacity of HaL is 4-6 planes an year. Imagine how many years it would take for IAF and Navy which have ordered LCA’s. 

 

[Android_Halwa]

Good to see some people out here taking about the real developments and actual happenings. 

 

[soodhilodaaram]

50 minutes ago, Desi_guy said:

12 Billion was the quoted price of 126 Rafale in 2008 which escalated to 20 Billion by 2014, when congress shortlisted the fighter and that too (no weapons package, no replenishment and recovery base, no warehouse, no guarantee on supplies and availability etc etc).

Current 7.8 Billion for 36 Rafale consists of below :

maintenance for 10 years
attrition compensation
75% availability
meteor BVR,SCALP missile
AESA radar
Engine upgrade, without mileage loss
Sand ingestion damage handling
Uprated weapon load
50% offset, meaning 3.9 billion to be invested back in india.
When the deal was opened by Modi and Hollande, French opened up with a price of 12 Billion for 36 rafales, It was cut down to 8.6 Billion by Indian government, a further cut was asked by defence ministers and the price was fixed at 7.8 billions.

People need to understand that UPA was simply buying 126 rafales for 20 billions without any weapons package which when added up takes the number to some 36 Billion.

anyone supporting HAL in this has no clue about government agencies inefficiency

I have friends in DRDO getting Apple iPods in 2003 through their stores lenient rule allowing local purchases for smaller threshold items.. now tell me why the fcuk they need iPods for defence research, this is when india was still reeling under sanctions and limited defense budget

corruption in MoD is astronomical and privatization is actually good for Defense.. DRDO should be like DARPA in US focusing only on research and requirements

 

[Android_Halwa]

9 minutes ago, soodhilodaaram said:

anyone supporting HAL in this has no clue about government agencies inefficiency

I have friends in DRDO getting Apple iPods in 2003 through their stores lenient rule allowing local purchases for smaller threshold items.. now tell me why the fcuk they need iPods for defence research, this is when india was still reeling under sanctions and limited defense budget

corruption in MoD is astronomical and privatization is actually good for Defense.. DRDO should be DARPA in US focusing only on research and requirements

 

You would not believe but the only semi automatic rifle ever produced completely by india now has been dumped by Indian Army and going for Kalashkov rifles again. 

Even the bullets we produced were of low quality man...! I have no idea what our ordinance factories have been doing for the last century’s. 

Only proud achievement is the hand grenade. 

INSAS rifle was a dud...

[soodhilodaaram]

8 minutes ago, Android_Halwa said:

You would not believe but the only semi automatic rifle ever produced completely by india now has been dumped by Indian Army and going for Kalashkov rifles again. 

Even the billets we produced were of low quality man...! I have no idea what our ordinance factories have been doing for the last century’s. 

Only proud achievement is the hang grenade. 

congress never wanted to position ourselves as a strong nation.. they encourage mediocrity in every area instead of merit and efficiency through caste, religion, leftists and anti national elements (ideas against nation state)

closed system of govt controlled agencies may have helped us during cold war trying to shield ourselves from superpowers, once we started opening up, BHEL, ISRO, BARC tappa all other agencies including OFB were failures

May be Vikram Sarabhai and Homi Bhabha were great minds that helped define the founding/initial days of these agencies to such high standards and did not allow any government interference in their merit standards

[Desi_guy]

17 minutes ago, soodhilodaaram said:

anyone supporting HAL in this has no clue about government agencies inefficiency

I have friends in DRDO getting Apple iPods in 2003 through their stores lenient rule allowing local purchases for smaller threshold items.. now tell me why the fcuk they need iPods for defence research, this is when india was still reeling under sanctions and limited defense budget

corruption in MoD is astronomical and privatization is actually good for Defense.. DRDO should be like DARPA in US focusing only on research and requirements

 

...parthi daniki HAL enduku ba...HAL ante scams em jaragavu ane feeling lo unnaru....Already Rafeal HAL meeting ai vallaidarki set kadu ani decide ayyake Reliance enter aindi...

[Desi_guy]

21 minutes ago, soodhilodaaram said:

anyone supporting HAL in this has no clue about government agencies inefficiency

I have friends in DRDO getting Apple iPods in 2003 through their stores lenient rule allowing local purchases for smaller threshold items.. now tell me why the fcuk they need iPods for defence research, this is when india was still reeling under sanctions and limited defense budget

corruption in MoD is astronomical and privatization is actually good for Defense.. DRDO should be like DARPA in US focusing only on research and requirements

 

According to Defence sources, HAL in a letter to Ministry of Defence (MoD) in 2012 mentioned the differences with Dassault pertaining to workshare.

In July 2014, HAL in a subsequent letter to MoD also highlighted one major unresolved issue regarding responsibility sharing between Dassault and HAL for license manufacture of aircraft. Besides, the man hours required for the manufacture of various components of the aircraft in HAL was also a point of disagreement between the two. "Due to all these reasons the proposals for 126 MMRCA could not progress further.

[Android_Halwa]

2 minutes ago, soodhilodaaram said:

congress never wanted to position ourselves as a strong nation.. they encourage mediocrity in every area instead of merit and efficiency through caste, religion, leftists and anti national elements (ideas against nation state)

closed system of govt controlled agencies may have helped us during cold war trying to shield ourselves from superpowers, once we started opening up, BHEL, ISRO, BARC tappa all other agencies including OFB were failures

May be Vikram Sarabhai and Homi Bhabha were great minds that helped define the founding/initial days of these agencies to such high standards and did not allow any government interference in their merit standards

That’s true man..! Somehow, BARC,ISRO could escape the clutches of Indian red Tapism. 

Even BHEL has enough potential to compete with major players on earth but they are not even being allowed to compete. BHeL can build the most advanced power systems with in a short span of time at lowest possible cost. It could capture the entire Asian market on my if it is allowed to prowl on its own. 

SAIL, such a modern company but the commondity of steel is controlled. 

Indian ordinace factories : more accidents happen here than innovation. 

India rifle factories : Phew..we still depend on Russian suppliers. 

Avionics, Radar and Surveilance. Thanks to Israel. 

For heavy machinery and tanks, again Russia calling. 

Lets not talk about Indian manufacturing of naval vessels...but some progress is being made here. We are building aircraft carriers. 

Indian avuation : far from even taking a leap. 

 

[soodhilodaaram]

11 minutes ago, Desi_guy said:

According to Defence sources, HAL in a letter to Ministry of Defence (MoD) in 2012 mentioned the differences with Dassault pertaining to workshare.

In July 2014, HAL in a subsequent letter to MoD also highlighted one major unresolved issue regarding responsibility sharing between Dassault and HAL for license manufacture of aircraft. Besides, the man hours required for the manufacture of various components of the aircraft in HAL was also a point of disagreement between the two. "Due to all these reasons the proposals for 126 MMRCA could not progress further.

from what i understood, HAL wanted Dassault to guarantee the work they are going to do, this is through liability clauses, for which dassault disagreed

we all knew what happened with Mig 21, entire world depended on these planes are they turned out to be flying coffins in india. reason is pathetic spares manufacturing processes at HAL, we lost 500 planes in short span.. no country would allow for so long what our govts did with HAL. atlast Modi realized this and moving on with alternatives

i would trust BJP with national security any day better than congress

India's status today is defined by Vajpayee/PVNR, we lost 10 freaking years in MMS robots rule, we need 10 yrs for Modi to cleanup

[Android_Halwa]

When it comes to defence, one can blindly trust nationalists than liberals. 

The saga of Mig-21’s is the legacy of HAL. 

In the last 4 years, Indian defense purchases have been localized and much more needs to be done or privatized. We can’t depend on govt run defense establishments. 

Almost 60 billion worth trade, even a pie of it could create good manufacturing facilities in India itself...