Mondragon - Proving Marx somewhat right.

[uttermost]

This amazing Spanish worker cooperative with $15b in revenue, and 75000 employees proves Marx right that the post capitalism, society/economy can only sustain itself if workers owned the firm, and benefit from their innovation at work.

The disadvantages are, Mondragon doesn't aggressively push itself in the market, and the worker-owner dynamic that exists in Spain cannot be easily replicated for its subsidiaries outside of Spain.  

In the same breath, this model doesn't apply to India which still has very low skilled workers at the moment, thus creation of a private industrial cooperative is a non starter. 

https://medium.com/fifty-by-fifty/mondragon-through-a-critical-lens-b29de8c6049

[uttermost]

In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, Fagor Electrodomésticos, the largest of the industrial cooperatives, failed, eliminating the jobs of 1,800 worker-owners in 2013.

The cause of the failure was a “perfect storm” of three related issues. First, immediately prior to the recession, Fagor Electrodomésticos had expanded by buying a competitor in the household white goods sector; it financed the acquisition by taking on major debt. Second, the number of its Asian competitors was growing every day. And third, just as the cooperative’s expanded capacity came on line, the recession hit and the bottom fell out of the market.

What happened next is what was unusual. Because of the principle of “intercooperation” among the Mondragon cooperative enterprises — that is, the idea of connectedness and reciprocity among all the participants in the system — most the employees were relocated to other cooperatives. Some were offered employment in CATA Electrodomésticos, the private sector enterprise that took over the assets of Fagor Electrodomésticos. Some took early retirement, and a handful took a compensation package to leave the system. Some received unemployment benefits from Lagun Aro, the social welfare cooperative. By the time of our 2017 visit, only 60 former employees (three percent) remained unplaced.

[uttermost]

post-capitalist societies - all western countries.

China - capitalist

India - feudalist (for the most part)

[Idassamed]

Interesting

[Rimbolamaster]

2 hours ago, uttermost said:

post-capitalist societies - all western countries.

China - capitalist

India - feudalist (for the most part)

Can not broadly generalize bhayya.

All western world ain't post capitalist.

China is a capitalist economy with a communist social frame work which ironically survives due to its capitalistic market outlook.

India is quasi socialist country with spurts of capitalistic market oriented pockets which has dramatically changed the lives of people in some parts of the country.

[LuciferMorningStar]

3 hours ago, uttermost said:

This amazing Spanish worker cooperative with $15b in revenue, and 75000 employees proves Marx right that the post capitalism, society/economy can only sustain itself if workers owned the firm, and benefit from their innovation at work. 

The disadvantages are, Mondragon doesn't aggressively push itself in the market, and the worker-owner dynamic that exists in Spain cannot be easily replicated for its subsidiaries outside of Spain.  

In the same breath, this model doesn't apply to India which still has very low skilled workers at the moment, thus creation of a private industrial cooperative is a non starter. 

https://medium.com/fifty-by-fifty/mondragon-through-a-critical-lens-b29de8c6049

" society/economy can only sustain itself if workers owned the firm, and benefit from their innovation at work.  "

Annai ee model already corporate companies lo undi kada Employee Stock Option Plans (ESOP)

[LuciferMorningStar]

3 hours ago, uttermost said:

post-capitalist societies - all western countries.

China - capitalist

India - feudalist (for the most part)

China should be an inspiration....the world can have only two types of governing system

1. US style Democracy

2. Chinese style Communism(although China has modified the definition of communism)

Other than these two, rest are all failures.

[uttermost]

25 minutes ago, LuciferMorningStar said:

" society/economy can only sustain itself if workers owned the firm, and benefit from their innovation at work.  "

Annai ee model already corporate companies lo undi kada Employee Stock Option Plans (ESOP)

anni companies lo undha ESOP?

[uttermost]

25 minutes ago, LuciferMorningStar said:

China should be an inspiration....the world can have only two types of governing system

1. US style Democracy

2. Chinese style Communism(although China has modified the definition of communism)

Other than these two, rest are all failures.

they are both the same type. one is a consumer, and the other a producer. that's the only difference.

china is capitalist.

[uttermost]

50 minutes ago, Rimbolamaster said:

Can not broadly generalize bhayya.

All western world ain't post capitalist.

China is a capitalist economy with a communist social frame work which ironically survives due to its capitalistic market outlook.

India is quasi socialist country with spurts of capitalistic market oriented pockets which has dramatically changed the lives of people in some parts of the country.

what is a communist social framework? china is a export oriented economy. It was always state capitalist, and has managed to open up its market for private entrepreneurs too in the past few decades. nothing more.

How is India quasi socialist? socialism is worker control of production. India is not even a little bit socialist. Its feudalist because the production in India is controlled by the elite (even in worker cooperatives) - with help from the govt. Whatever little 'market oriented pockets' exist in India, is just to help its elite.

[uttermost]

32 minutes ago, LuciferMorningStar said:

China should be an inspiration....the world can have only two types of governing system

1. US style Democracy

2. Chinese style Communism(although China has modified the definition of communism)

Other than these two, rest are all failures.

US is a failure.. a big failure in fact. Its been financed by the rest of the world. If it has to pay its debts at the rate rest of the world pays, around 30-40% of its revenue will go towards paying down its debt. lol.

US ia a military thug. nothing more. There's no governing system that is worthy of emulation from the US. If countries followed US model, they'd be in deep sh1t within a decade. eg. chile, argentina.

as for china, the next 30yrs will tell what'll happen. many other SE Asian countries have grown a lot faster, and have made the jump to high income group than China has. simply by following the simple export driven economic model. 

Its not communism, or a variant of communism. Its just mercantalism. I doubt chinese 'governance model' can carry on this momentum forward. Their failure in Africa, and the deep sh1t their corporates carry is proof of how clueless they are about how the world works beyond their bubble.

 

[uttermost]

13 minutes ago, uttermost said:

they are both the same type. one is a consumer, and the other a producer. that's the only difference.

china is capitalist.

What about Germany? 

Its the US of the Europe. except it has better protection for its workers. but even Germany's model is not sustainable.

US is definitely going to fail really hard, when other nations push back on its freeloading.

[uttermost]

48 minutes ago, LuciferMorningStar said:

China should be an inspiration....the world can have only two types of governing system

1. US style Democracy

2. Chinese style Communism(although China has modified the definition of communism)

Other than these two, rest are all failures.

all governance models so far explored by humans are failures.Ones that are ideas are also potential failures - like every anarchist model conceived by thinkers.

certain governance models persist because people believe in it, and push for it. But when things get hard, it will fail too. There's nothing good about the US model really, given how half the country makes less than $30k.

may be its time to open up borders, and reevaluate the existence of countries itself. this nation-state thing is a huge failure. it has only managed to create nationalist psychos. nothing more.

[cellphone]

endi idi