dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 4 hours ago, CanadianMalodu said: Driving lo unna. Crossing border. Will write up a detailed post with all the sources. ok...i am going to bed... nee longest essay with sources post cheyyi...repu chadvutaa... eagerly waiting... Quote
JerseyBidda Posted July 5, 2024 Report Posted July 5, 2024 On 7/3/2024 at 9:00 PM, dasari4kntr said: Hinduism teaches... సర్వేజనా సుఖినోభవన్తు. లోకాసమస్తా సుఖినోభవంతు Hindutva teaches.... "hindus in hindhu rastra" read between the lines..which quote attracts you...that is you... hinduism is about talking different schools of philosophies of divinity, identity, ego, nyaya, వేద, ఉపనిషద్, life after death..etc hindutva is about talking politics using hindhus as just vote base.... the difference is similar to kalki and kali.... I just googled meaning for Hindutva and Hinduism. Tva - essenceof something Ism - belief system or quality or practice The Op comment on hindutva is contradicting with whatever Tva means. Hindus in hindu rashtra was never been there in our transcripts. It was always jambu dweepam or bharata khandam. May be few politicians have twisted it. We can discuss about it later. I strongly believe that vaidika dharmam was still alive because of medieval scholars like aadi sankarchya, sankaracharya, ramanuja charya. They have tried alot to preach vaidika dharma to masses so that people can protect sanatan dharma from islamic rulers. Later, independence was the need of hour and tolerance gained lot of craze among indians due to gandhi and his followers. The world loved it during the times of world war and post independence many didn't like partition on the grounds of religion and hated some community due to loss of mother land. May be they have coined this ideology of hindutva because they want to protect what ever remained of Bharat. Interestingly, buddhism, jainism are coexisting with hindu dharma since long back even before both religions born. So this hindutva meaning didn't have any place in people's hearts earlier. Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 8 hours ago, CaptainMaverick said: First of all, There is no one original Manu Smriti. Over fifty manuscripts of the Manusmriti are now known, but the earliest discovered, most translated and presumed authentic version since the 18th century has been the Calcutta manuscript with Kulluka Bhatta commentary". Modern scholarship states this presumed authenticity is false, and the various manuscripts of Manusmriti discovered in India are inconsistent with each other. Second, The text's influence had historically spread outside India. The text influenced Hindu kingdoms in Cambodia and Indonesia. Manusmriti was one of the first Sanskrit texts to be translated into English, in 1776, by British philologist Sir William Jones .Manusmriti was used to construct the Hindu law code, for the East India Company-administered enclaves. Was Manu Smriti ever taken seriously or even acknowledged as a sacred text? In ancient and medieval India Scholars doubt Manusmriti was ever administered as law text in ancient or medieval Hindu society. David Buxbaum states, "in the opinion of the best contemporary orientalists, it [Manusmriti] does not, as a whole, represent a set of rules ever actually administered in Hindustan. It is in great part an ideal picture of that which, in the view of a Brahmin, ought to be law". Donald Davis writes, "there is no historical evidence for either an active propagation or implementation of Dharmasastra [Manusmriti] by a ruler or any state – as distinct from other forms of recognizing, respecting and using the text. Thinking of Dharmasastra as a legal code and of its authors as lawgivers is thus a serious misunderstanding of its history". Other scholars have expressed the same view, based on epigraphical, archaeological and textual evidence from medieval Hindu kingdoms in Gujarat, Kerala and Tamil Nadu, while acknowledging that Manusmriti was influential to the South Asian history of law and was a theoretical resource. In British India Prior to the British colonial rule, Sharia (Islamic law) for Muslims in South Asia had been codified as Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, but laws for non-Muslims – such as Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis – were not codified - both in regions of the subcontinent that witnessed anything up to 600 years of Islamic rule - as well as others. With the arrival of the British colonial officials, Manusmriti played a historic role in constructing a legal system for non-Muslims in South Asia and early Western perceptions about the ancient and medieval Indian society. The British colonial officials, however, mistook the Manusmriti as codes of law, failing to recognise that it was a commentary on morals and law and not a statement of positive law. The colonial officials of the early 19th century also failed to recognise that Manusmriti was one of many competing Dharmasastra texts, it was not in use for centuries during the Islamic rule period of India. The officials resurrected Manusmriti, constructed statements of positive law from the text for non-Muslims, in order to remain faithful to its policy of using sharia for the South Asian Muslim population. Manusmriti thus played a role in constructing the Anglo-Hindu law, as well as Western perceptions about ancient and medieval era Hindu culture from the colonial times. Take Aways: 1. Manu Smriti is not an original script. Many scholars hold the existing script as not authentic & inconsistent. 2. there is no historical evidence for either an active propagation or implementation of Dharmasastra [Manusmriti] by a ruler or any state. 3. It had NOT been in use for CENTURIES for at least 800 years until the British took over India. 4. Since there was no "Sharia"- like personal laws for the Non-Hindus, the British had constructed similar laws for Hindus based on a false, adulterated text like Manu Smriti. What was the end result? The British & the radical Islamists alike used this text to further divide Hindus in the name caste & convert them into either Islam or Christianity. Many people are very well aware of this fact but still continue to use this false text to divide Hindus. I suggest you do to with Manu Smriti what BR Ambedkar did: Set it on fire. ok…first let me start with casteist allegations on me…. నేను casteist కాదు….నా కొడుకు టీనేజ్ వయస్సు 15 కు వచ్చినా వాడికి కులం అంటే ఏంటో తెలీకుండా పెంచాను…కుల నిర్ములన కి ఎవడో చెప్పే హిందుత్వ సిద్దాంతాలు నాకు అవసరంలేదు…కుల నిర్మూలన కుటుంభం నుంచి జరగాలి అని తెలిసి భాద్యతగా పాటిస్తాను….నాకు ఎవడి certificate అవసరం లేదు ఈ విషయంలో… తర్వత విషయం …కులం విషయంలో rss bjp ద్వంద నీతి గురించి చెప్తా… కొన్ని శతాబ్దాలుగా భారతీయ సమాజంలో కులం వర్ణం అంటరానితనం ఉంది…దాని వళ్ళ ఆర్దిత అసమానతలు ఉన్నాయి…social equity లేదు…దాని కోసం reservations వచ్చాయి (గమనిక నేను 100% unrestricted reservations ని సమర్దించను అది ఇంతకు ముందు కూడా చెప్పా…) ఇలా తరతరాలుగా అసమానతలతో ఉన్న సమాజాం ఇప్పుడు reservations తో పైకి వస్తుంటే …హిందుత్వా వచ్చి అసలు కులం వద్దు ఇప్పుడు అందురూ సమానం అంటుంటే ఇంతకాలం వివక్షకి , social injustice కి గురైన వాళ్ళ పరిస్తితి…? one nation one caste అని try చేస్తే…అది ones exam NEET లా మారదా..? you guys completely forgetting the fact…india is “భన్నత్వంలో ఏకత్వం”…you cant change that… BJP కుల రాజకీయం చేయదు అనే బ్రమలు వీడండి…BJP is no different to congress…ఇదే ద్వందనీతి అంటే…this is just a tip of iceberg… ఇప్పుడు మనుసృతి గురించి…. దాన్ని తగలబెట్టు అని తేలికగా అనేసావ్ నువ్వు…నీ అనుకూల రాజకీయానికి అడ్డంగా ఉంది కాబట్టి…కానీ దాన్నించి వచ్చిన “దర్మం” ని ఏమి చేస్తావ్..ఎవరు ఏ బట్టలు వేసుకోవాలి ఏ తలపాగా కట్టుకోవాలి…ఎవరిని ఎలా సంభోదించాలి…ఫలాన కులంలో పురుషుడు వేరే ఫలానా కులం స్త్రీ తో పిల్లల్ని కంటే వాళ్ళు ఏ కులం కి చెందుతారు…బ్రాహ్మణుకి ఎంత సంభావన ఇవ్వాలి…శూద్రునికి ఎలాంటి పని ఇవ్వాలి….వగైరా వగైరా కూలంకుషంగా ఉంది…నీ ఏ version కావాలో చెపితే అదే version వి చెప్పడానికి try చేస్తా… వీలైతే ఇది ఒక సారి చదువు… Dayanand Saraswati was committed to Manusmriti, except a few portions which he thought were interpolated. Savarkar believed that Manusmriti was “the scripture that is most worshippable after the Vedas” and “the basis of the spiritual and divine march of the nation.” And Golwalkar called Manu “the first, greatest and the wisest lawgiver of mankind”. Given this firm commitment to Manusmriti, RSS wanted it to inform India’s Constitution. On 30 November 1949, its mouthpiece, Organiser wrote: “Manu’s laws were written long before Lycurgus of Sparta or Solon of Persia. But to our constitutional pundits that means nothing”. RSS was perhaps referring to Ambedkar’s opposition to Manusmriti – he actually burnt it in 1927. But by burning Manusmriti (instead of ignoring it altogether) Ambedkar actually legitimised it as a valid document of Hinduism (which it is not). This mistake has cost the Dalit community hugely since most believe even today that it was intended for them. Sanjay Sonawani has persuasively shown that Manusmriti was very limited in scope and not intended for non-Vedic Indians. In any event, the RSS has reached a dead-end with Manusmriti. Peddling this extremely controversial document is costing it the support of the Dalits. So the RSS has taken up a new project: to change the Manusmriti itself. In 2017 Sanskar Bharti, an RSS affiliate said that it is “debating the removal of portions from the Manusmriti, which are anti-Dalit and anti-woman and often quoted in arguments against Hindu scriptures”. But RSS can’t change the fact that in the Vedic religion both hereditary varna and Manusmriti go hand in hand. One can’t revise these ancient documents, anyway. RSS can either promote a religion with strong varna discrimination or a religion with equality and freedom. It can’t have both. Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 27 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: "But RSS can’t change the fact that in the Vedic religion both hereditary varna and Manusmriti go hand in hand." This claim is wrong! Varna was not an inherited category and the occupation determined the varna. However, a person's Jati is determined at birth and makes them take up that Jati's occupation; members could and did change their occupation based on personal strengths as well as economic, social and political factors. So if Varna is NOT hereditary, then why would Vedic religion & Manusmriti go hand in hand?!! These narratives are the result of agenda driven Hindu haters who are still doing the bidding of the Colonialists. because of varna system heavily discussed in రుగ్వేదం, భగవత్గీతా , మనుస్మ్రతి, ఉపనిషద్…. అది వంశపారంపర్యం కాదు అని చెప్తూనే దాన్ని వంశపరంపర్యం గా చేసి అవలింబంచారు ఇన్ని తరాలుగా… ఇన్ని తరాలుగా …ఆదిపత్యం చెలాయించి…ఇప్పుడు రాజ్యాంగం వళ్ళ ఆ ఆదిపత్యం పోతుందని…అన్ని కులాలు ఒకటే …general category …అంటే …ఎంతవరకు కరెక్టు….? Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 28 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: "In 2017 Sanskar Bharti, an RSS affiliate said that it is “debating the removal of portions from the Manusmriti, which are anti-Dalit and anti-woman and often quoted in arguments against Hindu scriptures”. What was actually said about Manusmriti by Sanskar Bharti in 2017: THE RSS’s cultural affiliate Sanskar Bharti is planning to tie up with the Union Ministry of Culture to promote activities that will “correct the lies that people have been fed” about ancient Hindu scriptures being “anti-Dalit and anti-woman”, starting with the Manusmriti, a senior office-bearer of the organisation told The Sunday Express. According to Amir Chand, joint organisational secretary, Sanskar Bharti, the Sangh outfit believes that people should be educated about “the acceptance that our scriptures teach” through performing arts and awareness activities, such as seminars. “We are debating the removal of portions from the Manusmriti, which are anti-Dalit and anti-woman and often quoted in arguments against Hindu scriptures,” he said. “There are some references in Manusmriti where some objectionable things have been mentioned. It should be deleted. We do not support them. We have to see Manusmriti in today’s context. We will suggest to the government that they look into this,” said Chand. When contacted by The Sunday Express, Union Minister of Culture, Mahesh Sharma said, “We have not received any such proposal. We will take cognizance once we get it.” Manusmriti is a compilation of rules and regulations prepared by Manu meant for the conduct of a varnashrama, or a social system based on caste. Scholars date the codification by Manu to 200 CE, though claims are made for a much earlier date. According to Chand, fresh research should be commissioned on Manusmriti. “We believe that Manu was born 8,000 years ago… There are several versions of Manusmriti, which have been written 5,500 years after his birth and thus the credentials of the authors and their writings need to be questioned. It is a matter of research, someone needs to look in to this,” he said. Chand said that the scriptures never “promoted anti-Dalit or anti-woman sentiments” and described such interpretations as “propaganda” and the result of “ignorance”. “Many did not know that Rigveda has 47 richayen (hymns) written by a woman. How can such vedas be anti-woman? It is ignorance about our own scriptures that lead many to criticise them. I can understand that Manusmriti has something wrong, but that can be removed after thorough research into who wrote it,” said Chand. When quotes are taken out of context with the intention of misleading the readers & propagate false narratives, so called educated people will be mislead. Sanskar Bharti was planning to tie up with the Union Ministry of Culture to promote activities that will “correct the lies that people have been fed” about ancient Hindu scriptures being “anti-Dalit and anti-woman”, starting with the Manusmriti. The writer Sanjeev Sablok of TOI omitted this & went ahead with his agenda of peddling false narratives. why would they do modifications…if they are not owning entire manusmrithi..? you didn’t answer my question…from where dharma came..? Quote
Android_Halwa Posted July 5, 2024 Report Posted July 5, 2024 2 hours ago, dasari4kntr said: నేను casteist కాదు….నా కొడుకు టీనేజ్ వయస్సు 15 కు వచ్చినా వాడికి కులం అంటే ఏంటో తెలీకుండా పెంచాను…కుల నిర్ములన కి ఎవడో చెప్పే హిందుత్వ సిద్దాంతాలు నాకు అవసరంలేదు Noru ki edosthe adi matladudena ? Ninna laaga minna Kalki cinema ki naaku sandeep reddy vanga ki link petti castesist remarks chesindi gurtu leda ? Idena nuv cheppe sollu ? Kula nirmulana antu castesit remarks chesesi tamare…paiga covering..! Typical commie… Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 1 minute ago, Android_Halwa said: Noru ki edosthe adi matladudena ? Ninna laaga minna Kalki cinema ki naaku sandeep reddy vanga ki link petti castesist remarks chesindi gurtu leda ? Idena nuv cheppe sollu ? Kula nirmulana antu castesit remarks chesesi tamare…paiga covering..! Typical commie… nee talakayi… nuvvu sandeep reddy vanga photo vunna tweet ki maa telanagan ani thoda kottav…nenu anduku anna….just region specific.. ninnu nenu ee roju readdy gaa choodala…nee caste perutho criticize cheyyala….okka sari alochinchuko… edo counter ivvadam kosam edi padithe adi maatladaku… chill avvu anushka… 1 Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 13 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: వర్ణ(caste ) అనేది పుట్టుకతో వచ్చినది కాదు అని మన శాస్త్రాలు చెప్తున్నాయి! nenu cheppedi kooda ade…it not inheritance by book…but in reality and practice it was implemented…even today also… 14 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: మరొక ఎత్తు: ఒక రాజ్యము మీదకి దండయాత్రకు వచ్చిన యుద్ధం లో ఆ రాజు ఇంకో రాజు చేతిలో ఓడిపోయాడనుకుందాం....ఆ రాజు మరణించాడు! కానీ ఆ రాజ్యం లో అప్పటిదాకా సుభిక్షంగా ఉన్న ప్రజలు తమ ప్రాణాలని కాపాడుకోవడం కోసం ఇతర ప్రాంతాలకి పారిపోయారనుకుందాం! అటువంటి శరణార్థులు దెగ్గర డబ్బు గాని బంగారం గాని లేని దుస్థితి లో మరణించిన సైన్యాధిపతి భార్యయినా అతని పిల్లలైనా బ్రతుకుతెరువు కోసం వచ్చిన పనిని చెయ్యాలి! అది స్మశానం లో శవాలు తగలపెట్టే కాటికాపరి పని అయినా, జంతు కళేబరాలు కానీ వాటి చర్మంతో చేసే దుస్తుల పని అయినా!! ఇక్కడ వీళ్ళ పుట్టుక సైన్యాధిపతి కి పుట్టినా వర్ణ ప్రకారం ఒక పంచమ వర్ణానికి చెందినవారవుతారు! అదే పంచమ వర్ణానికి చెందిన బాలుడు వేదాలలో నిష్ణాతుడు అయితే అతడు ఒక గొప్ప బ్రాహ్మణుడు అవుతాడు! కాబట్టి ఈ రోజు దళితులు, శూద్రులుగా చెప్పబడిన వాళ్ళు ఒకానొకప్పుడు బ్రాహ్మణులు గా గాని, క్షత్రియులుగా గాని, వైశ్యులు గా గాని లేరా? ఎన్ని తరాలబట్టి అణచివేయబడ్డారు? ఇప్పుడు బ్రాహ్మణులూ, క్షత్రియులు గా చెలామణి అవుతున్నారు ఒకానొకప్పుడు పంచమ వర్ణాలు గా గాని, శూద్రులు గా గాని లేరా? ఉంటే ఎప్పుడు వాళ్ళు రాజులయ్యారు? ఎప్పుడు వాళ్ళు బ్రాహ్మణులయ్యారు? these are all hypotheses…it doesn’t depict the reality… even that jati is nothing but race…i never heard religious texts are talking or explicitly defining about jati…if it discussed in any hindu religious text show me where it is..? Quote
Android_Halwa Posted July 5, 2024 Report Posted July 5, 2024 38 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said: nuvvu sandeep reddy vanga photo vunna tweet ki maa telanagan ani thoda kottav…nenu anduku anna….just region specific.. Looks like you have a weak memory… Quote
reality Posted July 5, 2024 Report Posted July 5, 2024 5 minutes ago, Android_Halwa said: Looks like you have a weak memory… idisey kaka!! Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 9 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: We are now in 2024 AD that means Manusmriti and its many versions had been written over the last 2020 years! nope…there were some ancient versions were there…atleast 200-300 above years old…if i remember correct… 13 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: Why the hell would Sanskar Bharati own any unauthentic, adulterated texts? below is your quote… why would anyone wants to modify which they dont agree the authenticity..? this is the same reason…in modern day…social media doesnt do moderation on social media message…because if they monitored they won the content and subject to be liable on what surfaces on SM… 1 hour ago, CaptainMaverick said: We are debating the removal of portions from the Manusmriti, which are anti-Dalit and anti-woman and often quoted in arguments against Hindu scriptures,” he said. “There are some references in Manusmriti where some objectionable things have been mentioned. It should be deleted. We do not support them. We have to see Manusmriti in today’s context. We will suggest to the government that they look into this,” said Chand coming to dharma…answer is not satisfactory….there are numerous things of day to day duties were defined as dharma ….i am pretty sure vedas or upanishads didnt give that much details on social system….except manusmrithi… Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 2 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: From your comments, I realized that you don't do any research. Instead of relying on what's been published by communist authors, put some effort & do some research into our sacred texts....!! You think that "if something is said or published in a book, then it must be true" NO!....people also lie in books!! Especially Indian history written by the likes of Guhas, Romila Thapars, Irfan Habibs etc.,!! so you’re saying people lie in books…but rss literature is 100% correct.. ? Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 1 minute ago, CaptainMaverick said: Dude, If you don't clearly understand English, please google translate it into Telugu! ohho…nuvvu simple gaa prathi daaniki google search chesi articles ikkada vestunte…nenu line by line saduvutaan anna…anthena….oka sari manusmrithi ni rss oppukodhu antava…mari enduku edit chestunnaru ante…ededo cheptav… savarkar manusmriti should be worshipped annadi nijam…after that he didn’t mention that anywhere…but the preceding leaders golwalker referenced it during their speeches… and also…you simply ignored the bjp brahmin baniya video… Quote
dasari4kntr Posted July 5, 2024 Author Report Posted July 5, 2024 3 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: Can you imagine somebody saying "Let's modify Islam or Bible" , the results are very well known! i dont care what they do…i am least bothered…you referring them in every instance is insulting to hinduism …hinduism is different school of thoughts… Quote
lollilolli2020 Posted July 5, 2024 Report Posted July 5, 2024 16 minutes ago, CaptainMaverick said: I give two hoots about what RSS says. They don't have any authority on me. I am not a Hindu. And even RSS doesn't go around and say they have authority on anyone! If RSS or its affiliates want to modify Hindu texts, what's wrong with it?!! Can you imagine somebody saying "Let's modify Islam or Bible" , the results are very well known! May be Hindus should modify their texts based on the circumstances they live-in! They don't have blasphemy laws...it's not sin! LOL! mari meeru emitlu ?? Quote
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