DrBeta

Why you should stand up?

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Ashtavakra

and yeah, the commerce benefitting with more competition (ideal market scenario) leads to less competition. 

yes, that is what Marx has predicted, and he's not been proven wrong yet.

they just have invented financial instruments to get around communism to keep capitalism alive by pumping more an more money into people and sectors they like.

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Ashtavakra

yeah.. biotech is not exactly science, though :) 

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DrBeta

I don't think science will benefit with less competition, there is so much science out there, enough for everyone to pursue and we can't do it if we are slacking. Also, the more intense it gets, it gives us new ideas from completely tangential fields. And people share, everything that they work on, in journals. Now I know what you're going to point out about pharmaceutical companies patenting and increasing the prices, and monopolizing the market. But as a scientist, I still think that the more competitive the environment is, the more likely one is to find a new, possibly cheaper solution.

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Ashtavakra
Just now, DrBeta said:

I don't think science will benefit will less competition, there is so much science out there, enough for everyone to pursue and we can't do it if we are slacking. Also, the more intense it gets, it gives us new ideas from a completely tangential fields. And people share, everything that they work on, in journals. Now I know what you're going to point out about pharmaceutical companies patenting and increasing the prices, and monopolizing the market. But as a scientist, I still think that the more competitive the environment is, the more likely one is to find a new, possibly cheaper solution.

you keep making assumptions that people will slack if they don't have to fight to eat, drink and sleep.

some of the greatest inventors in the industrial era, were millionaires or husbands of millionaire wives, or princes, etc. Not common folk who had to 'work' for their food.

 

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DrBeta

I am not making assumptions here. I see around me, not everyone puts in the same effort. Be it, at school, at work or in life in general. If people aren't all working the same, they shouldn't expect to be given the same benefits. 

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Ashtavakra
3 minutes ago, DrBeta said:

I don't think science will benefit will less competition, there is so much science out there, enough for everyone to pursue and we can't do it if we are slacking. Also, the more intense it gets, it gives us new ideas from a completely tangential fields. And people share, everything that they work on, in journals. Now I know what you're going to point out about pharmaceutical companies patenting and increasing the prices, and monopolizing the market. But as a scientist, I still think that the more competitive the environment is, the more likely one is to find a new, possibly cheaper solution.

science will benefit from collaboration. freely sharing data and protocols amongst the community and the public in general.

what do you think exploded the growth of Internet? if microsoft was allowed to et standards, we would be still playing solitaire 5.0 on our computer desktops.

It was coders who worked to produce softwares for its own sake, and give it away free to the community. Even today the maintainers of those systems are working many hours per week for free.

compared to that, most 'competitive' legacy systems built sorely on proprietory tech are total crap, and are being replaced all over the world.

there are other problems with such free exchange, like the man hours the maintainers are not paid for. but that's another topic.

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Ashtavakra
Just now, DrBeta said:

I am not making assumptions here. I see around me, not everyone puts in the same effort. Be it, at school, at work or in life in general. If people aren't all working the same, they should expect to be given the same benefits. 

that's because you don't need to put in too much effort to succeed in life. people have worked out shortcuts, cheat codes to settle into where they are comfortable with.

if everything is given for free, it will shake the belief system of these slackers, and social and economic prowess won't be so easy to achieve, with a lot more talented people breathing down their neck, because they don't have to fight for their food now.

who knows where the next nikola tesla is hiding in indian slums? Tesla who ran the millionaire edison close and challenged him in every possible way, before he died of penury. 

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DrBeta

And I agree that being a millionaire is a great privilege. But not everyone who is a millionaire, started out as a millionaire. They might have started out at the same position as someone else who might end up being a homeless person. It doesn't mean that one is more successful than the other. I don't believe in success in the first place. I believe in struggle. I believe that if someone has the courage to get back up on their feet after failing 101 times, then they are still successful. So, if the homeless guy gets back on his feet and struggles to get going, he can be successful too.

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Ashtavakra

giving free basic stuff, will in fact enhance the competition in some sectors.. and kill it in others.

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sarita
1 minute ago, DrBeta said:

I am not making assumptions here. I see around me, not everyone puts in the same effort. Be it, at school, at work or in life in general. If people aren't all working the same, they should expect to be given the same benefits. 

The one thing that matters the most is the 'Result' not 'Effort'

remember the saying -"A genius is never a better hard working person". 

If a person does the same job like u for only 20 hrs doesn't mean he's not better than you.

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DrBeta

Just like coders are sharing their work, scientists share their work too. They publish their data and they get recognized for their work. And ofcourse, they collaborate. They also compete and strive to be better. 

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Ashtavakra
Just now, DrBeta said:

And I agree that being a millionaire is a great privilege. But not everyone who is a millionaire, started out as a millionaire. They might have started out at the same position as someone else who might end up being a homeless person. It doesn't mean that one is more successful than the other. I don't believe in success in the first place. I believe in struggle. I believe that if someone has the courage to get back up on their feet after failing 101 times, then they are still successful. So, if the homeless guy gets back on his feet and struggles to get going, he can be successful too.

I'm not interested in struggle. I want more science. I want humans to get to the next level.

If I have to feed a 1000 people to find one Nicola Tesla among them, its worth it for me.

personally, I don't believe in great man theory.. I think people are unique, and the material conditions around them is what decreases their motivation.

as you have observed, for an upper middle class person today, landing a $100k job is not an impossible task, and his motivation dies with that. he is happy to come to a db like this, and talk sh1t.

but if a guy making $15k is breathing down his neck with inventions in his garage, the $100k guy won't be so cool with what he has achieved. but he $15k guy is stuck with credit card debt, a few bad life choices (like marriage, mortgage etc), and he's done. he's given up.

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Ashtavakra
2 minutes ago, DrBeta said:

Just like coders are sharing their work, scientists share their work too. They publish their data and they get recognized for their work. And ofcourse, they collaborate. They also compete and strive to be better. 

but the competition you were referring to earlier, is different from the scientific competition.

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DrBeta

I believe that effort is more important than result. The result doesn't really matter, but what matters is the struggle. Failure is good, it teaches you what not to do. It makes you wiser. I don't see success as a destination, but as a journey. 

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