NRIs vs Indians back home.

[Don_Draper]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

That something is POV is not a point.

okay. what ethnic groups do you have in mind that you want to talk about. whatever you want to talk about, saying that certain groups actions are justified, because of totally unrelated (even complimentary) actions of another group is quite silly.

hint: I'm talking about how both Hindu and muslim uppercaste behave in a similar casteist way in India. well, almost. The majority of violence suffered by muslims are those of recent converts (about 50yrs back), who were probably dalits or some backward caste who wanted to get away from Hinduism.

Inequality is everywhere. Humans were living in caves. Men mostly probably raped (under modern definitions of sexual harassment). People evolve, and change.

it is a human endeavor to address inequality. If ranting against uppercaste is not going to change it (it'll atleast shame them), then justifying their actions will certainly not. In fact, it'll embolden them further.

POV is not "something".  The context is POV of each group, for example like you think dalits are suppressed and you feel it pretty strong. Now don't quote me saying that only you feel it strong.  I assume its not much of a comprehension for you to understand.

I'm not talking about a particular ethnic group, i meant that Ethnic groups must be studied to understand why they do certain things and why it is justified according to them.  Is "DALIT" the only inequality in the Whole world? Don't we still celebrate Baba Ambedkar?? Are you suggesting we they rewrote constitution out of constipation?  I can also pivot like you on to something totally irrelevant and create alternatives.  So lets say,  overnight everyone is equal in India, what's the next fight you are going pick for?  Didn't you realize by now that humans can be shameless too? They contextually, still get the perks, you shame'em or name'em. You cannot box the whole inequality and tag it only to Dalits.  Even if you are biased, as i said earlier it doesn't matter nor it is of any relevance you agree or disagree with certain things.  At the end , you know already what you have decided to believe until "Something" Spurs to do otherwise.  

[uttermost]

23 minutes ago, Don_Draper said:

I don't. My point being the same its POV.  When you talk about bigger picture, you need to look at all ethnic groups, why do they do certain things to be justified. It's okay if you wanna trumpet against upper caste. It ain't gonna change a thing. Inequality is the everywhere. Even Upper castes have multi layered castes where other feel the burnt of inequality.  Once caste is abolished, then come economic equality. Then people will fight for the same. 

Inequality of the kind that is institutionalized by caste doesn't exist anywhere. except in some communities in Japan, and a few in Europe. But in India it happens on a staggering scale. and people are okay with it.

I'm talking about inability of a whole section of population in accessing education, healthcare, etc, and you are talking about the kind of wealth inequality that is - I have a scooter, and that guy just bought a mercedes.

[Don_Draper]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

Inequality of the kind that is institutionalized by caste doesn't exist anywhere. except in some communities in Japan, and a few in Europe. But in India it happens on a staggering scale. and people are okay with it.

I'm talking about inability of a whole section of population in accessing education, healthcare, etc, and you are talking about the kind of wealth inequality that is - I have a scooter, and that guy just bought a mercedes.

Thats a poor assumption from ya. People are not okay with it.  I don't know how to put that in words which you would understand. 

aaj ke liye qaafi hey.. kuch galat kaha  toh maafi hey

[Don_Draper]

@uttermost -- just ignore my scrabble, it's not even worth a read for ya. 

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, Don_Draper said:

POV is not "something".  The context is POV of each group, for example like you think dalits are suppressed and you feel it pretty strong. Now don't quote me saying that only you feel it strong.  I assume its not much of a comprehension for you to understand.

I'm not talking about a particular ethnic group, i meant that Ethnic groups must be studied to understand why they do certain things and why it is justified according to them.  Is "DALIT" the only inequality in the Whole world? Don't we still celebrate Baba Ambedkar?? Are you suggesting we they rewrote constitution out of constipation?  I can also pivot like you on to something totally irrelevant and create alternatives.  So lets say,  overnight everyone is equal in India, what's the next fight you are going pick for?  Didn't you realize by now that humans can be shameless too? They contextually, still get the perks, you shame'em or name'em. You cannot box the whole inequality and tag it only to Dalits.  Even if you are biased, as i said earlier it doesn't matter nor it is of any relevance you agree or disagree with certain things.  At the end , you know already what you have decided to believe until "Something" Spurs to do otherwise.  

I'll tell you what's wrong with your POV.  it denies even a cursory reading of history, and wants to simply assign attributes to all groups equally without understanding what they went through.

what do you think is the jusitification for uppercaste behaviour? for eg. uppercaste groups control all of production and distribution in India (almost). In a country where their population will be at best around 20%. Ofcourse it serves their purpose to rob lower castes of both their agency and dignity, so they can keep this arrangement going. What is your justification? that they want to preserve their culture? do you really believe in that kind of vacuous reasons that people give as their motivations?

ofcourse human beings have the capacity to be shameless, especially in groups. Does that mean that I excuse the current shameless group, because the ones that will displace them will be equally shameless?

I don't get that dig about Ambedkar , and rewriting constitution. forget it.

 

[uttermost]

8 minutes ago, Don_Draper said:

Thats a poor assumption from ya. People are not okay with it.  I don't know how to put that in words which you would understand. 

aaj ke liye qaafi hey.. kuch galat kaha  toh maafi hey

people are not only okay with it. They actively encourage it. They may pretend to care about it.

go read any online forum that starts a discussion on reservation, and pick a random relative to have a discussion on it.

I'm betting most of them start with - 'economic reservation is the solution'. This is the sign of a disinterested mind that refuses to engage with the issue in any meaningful way.

The constitution itself specifies that reservation exists for the sake of representation of all groups, and people are still making ecnomic cases. They don't realise that if dalits are really economically equal to every caste, the reservation quota would be absolutely useless. 

again you'll say that it is POV. but some POVs are wrong, because they reject reality, and are only interested in metaphysics.

[uttermost]

25 minutes ago, Don_Draper said:

Thats a poor assumption from ya. People are not okay with it.  I don't know how to put that in words which you would understand. 

aaj ke liye qaafi hey.. kuch galat kaha  toh maafi hey

I understand what you are saying. But you are countering reality with arguments fit for a philosophical discussion.

This is like trying to build an airplane (metaphysics) without understanding the physics, and maths behind it (reality).

it may still be possible through trial and error, but the finer details of such an airplane can only be achieved through strict deconstruction of its parts, and understanding the physics and maths behind it.

You simply cannot build a society by justifying what the oppressors do as human frailty.

Also fatalism that you project in your analysis of human groups is a bit strange, because you claim philosophical grounding to it. I'm pretty sure that JK wasn't that cynical about hinduism. Perhaps you picked a general point of his, and applied it to this argument.

[ceelogreen]

rei sambaar nuv 10geyaleda india ki...

[uttermost]

2 minutes ago, ceelogreen said:

rei sambaar nuv 10geyaleda india ki...

nenu ekkada unna, work timings same ra.

[ceelogreen]

1 minute ago, uttermost said:

nenu ekkada unna, work timings same ra.

oho..nee daridram atta edsindi annamata....

[Aakupaccha_caradu]