Corruption ranking out of all 5 Southern states

[Tryad]

2 minutes ago, hyperbole said:

Not saying there is no corruption but less corruption, some of the key difference from 2014 to now is digitization of records and elimination of man in the middle leechers , 100% of the welfare schemes are direct debit based on Aadhar and verified records. Only state in the country where land registrations and transactions are 100% digitized(viewable over internet from anywhere, digital trace avoids double registrations which used to be rampant with help from employees in registration offices)

if there is corruption mostly at the high level but most of the low level is contained. Even the traffic challans now require photograph from the cops and even those records and transactions are digitized 

what do you mean by pointing out to land transactions being digital as evidence of less corruption? I've registered more than a couple dozen properties in the last 8 years just in Chennai.. I didn't find any corruption in registrar office anywhere. the corruption exists when I seek a surveyor to examine the claims in the sale deed. It doesn't exist in TG?

and this is public facing corruption.. there many other forms of corruption.. keeping guideline values artificially low is also a consequence of corruption.. are you saying digitization prevents that too? seems like magic.

[venkappa]

9 minutes ago, Tryad said:

Yeah.. its not an easy job to find land in TN now without using some muscle, and giving up political capital. All this doesn't come for free. who's going to pay for that?

all this big MNCs want everything in exchange for nothing.. like freeloaders in society.

land grabbing happened in couple of high growth areas.. and power cuts happened all over India. That is not the reason for Chennai falling behind.. mind you, it still has a fast growth, just not as fast as Hyd and Blr.

in the end all of these cities are worthless.. they have very poor infra and horrible living conditions. you wouldn't notice it if you don't step out of your community and your car.

I’m not talking about corruption in regards to city growth. I’m talking about corrupt state govts affecting public wellbeing (economic, daily life, and HDI).

[Tryad]

3 minutes ago, venkappa said:

If govt wants something in return from MNC, they should ask it in official professional manner. Instead, local leaders in the area were behaving like bazaar rowdies. Holding collar of managers and demanding personal bribe. 

says you've never done any business anywhere in the southern states.

in every state you'll have local leaders behave like this. not just in TN, or AP..

[Tryad]

Just now, venkappa said:

I’m not talking about corruption in regards to city growth. I’m talking about corrupt state govts affecting state wellbeing (economic, daily life, and HDI).

you are actually talking about how the city you decided to invest in, is the best city to invest in, because it'll help increase the property values in your city.. so you can retire by the time you reach 35..

all the states you mention are good enough to invest in and settle down. including AP. they all have reasonable law and order and civic society.

 

[Tryad]

4 minutes ago, venkappa said:

I’m not talking about corruption in regards to city growth. I’m talking about corrupt state govts affecting state wellbeing (economic, daily life, and HDI).

city grows when there's place(land) to grow. simple. don't overthink it.

richer people from their state move to it, and set up small shops, businesses, because it is cheap. Chennai is not cheap. some of what you would consider the most unclean areas, are more expensive than the rest of the city.

corruption is the least of reasons why city's development stops. It has more to do with the people who live there, being open to change. Chennai is least open to change, inspite of what you hear Chennai people saying online wanting this and that.. they will actually oppose everything they say that they want.

[hyperbole]

9 minutes ago, Tryad said:

what do you mean by pointing out to land transactions being digital as evidence of less corruption? I've registered more than a couple dozen properties in the last 8 years just in Chennai.. I didn't find any corruption in registrar office anywhere. the corruption exists when I seek a surveyor to examine the claims in the sale deed. It doesn't exist in TG?

and this is public facing corruption.. there many other forms of corruption.. keeping guideline values artificially low is also a consequence of corruption.. are you saying digitization prevents that too? seems like magic.

double registration of land in Telangana which means that the owner has sold the plot twice. Since it is not the responsibility of the registrar to determine if the property is listed in the ownership of another person, he cannot be held guilty in terms of his obligation and this lead to rampant corruption by the erring employees.

 

This is a fraudulent move on the part of the seller, and the buyer failed to follow fundamental legal procedures including publishing a notice in the newspaper, checking the status of the property with the local government, and verifying ROR and Mutation documents with the BLRO office, among others. The Registration authority is not required to perform “due diligence” on the documents presented by the parties.

You must file then a criminal complaint against the dealer and ask a civil court for an injunction. The seller of the property who has already offered his land now sells his property twice to the third party if the Registrar of Land registered the land that has already been sold earlier to another party.

This stops from happening now because the system will not allow double registrations since the land records and surveyor records are digitized along with ownership claims(ownership chain)

 

[venkappa]

2 minutes ago, Tryad said:

says you've never done any business anywhere in the southern states.

in every state you'll have local leaders behave like this. not just in TN, or AP..

A good govt would reign in those corrupt elements to prevent embarrassment to the state. Karnataka long back was good at this. They brought in outside investments and took steps to ensure no politician would cause trouble. I don’t know what happened now. 

BTW, these were not some chota mota panchayat member demanding bribe. These were MLAs, MPs, and Ministers demanding bribe sent to their OWN bank account all because it was in their area. 

[Tryad]

2 minutes ago, venkappa said:

A good govt would reign in those corrupt elements to prevent embarrassment to the state. Karnataka long back was good at this. They brought in outside investments and took steps to ensure no politician would cause trouble. I don’t know what happened now. 

BTW, these were not some chota mota panchayat member demanding bribe. These were MLAs, MPs, and Ministers demanding bribe sent to their OWN bank account all because it was in their area. 

I'm sorrry that is part of doing business (especially setting a factory) anywhere in India. Don't say TG doesn't have that problem.

you'll have to pay protection money every year.. if you say TG is not like that, I'll run to TG to invest. ofcourse such a place doesn't exist in India. lite teesko.

 

[Tryad]

6 minutes ago, hyperbole said:

double registration of land in Telangana which means that the owner has sold the plot twice. Since it is not the responsibility of the registrar to determine if the property is listed in the ownership of another person, he cannot be held guilty in terms of his obligation and this lead to rampant corruption by the erring employees.

This is a fraudulent move on the part of the seller, and the buyer failed to follow fundamental legal procedures including publishing a notice in the newspaper, checking the status of the property with the local government, and verifying ROR and Mutation documents with the BLRO office, among others. The Registration authority is not required to perform “due diligence” on the documents presented by the parties.

You must file then a criminal complaint against the dealer and ask a civil court for an injunction. The seller of the property who has already offered his land now sells his property twice to the third party if the Registrar of Land registered the land that has already been sold earlier to another party.

okay. but I thought you were talking about corruption on the govt's side. digitization is helpful, ofcourse..

but I've encountered many times when a seller presents to me a digital patta, and it turns out that actual patta for that property doesn't exist. It takes atleast a couple of weeks of serious enquiry, if the seller provides every document.. and if he doesn't, then it takes months to do due diligence.

I wouldn't classify this under corruption, more like fraud.

[venkappa]

8 minutes ago, Tryad said:

city grows when there's place(land) to grow. simple. don't overthink it.

richer people from their state move to it, and set up small shops, businesses, because it is cheap. Chennai is not cheap. some of what you would consider the most unclean areas, are more expensive than the rest of the city.

corruption is the least of reasons why city's development stops. It has more to do with the people who live there, being open to change. Chennai is least open to change, inspite of what you hear Chennai people saying online wanting this and that.. they will actually oppose everything they say that they want.

You are going out of syllabus here. When I say state corruption, I’m talking about organizing illegal cartels, swallowing up govt funds for their own selfish needs, extortion through various means, shoddy completion/implementation of projects due to financial gain, etc.

[Tryad]

8 minutes ago, venkappa said:

A good govt would reign in those corrupt elements to prevent embarrassment to the state. Karnataka long back was good at this. They brought in outside investments and took steps to ensure no politician would cause trouble. I don’t know what happened now. 

BTW, these were not some chota mota panchayat member demanding bribe. These were MLAs, MPs, and Ministers demanding bribe sent to their OWN bank account all because it was in their area. 

its called the political economy dude.. you have to learn to live with it.

the last time the fine citizens of that shitty country decided to do something about it.. anna hazare sh1t movement and brought in a fascist into the govt.

careful what you ask for dude.. in exchange for growth, what are you willing to give up?

if you want growth.. solid growth.. don't just 'invest' in lands and wait for someone to set up a factory.. do it yourself.. set up a factory and have fun and see how it works out. anyway none of this is going to happen. 'growth' in all Indian cities is just a temporary blip.

Just like Chinese economy is about to grind to a halt.. Indian's will too.. just that it'll take a little more time to happen.

[Tryad]

Just now, venkappa said:

You are going out of syllabus here. When I say state corruption, I’m talking about organizing illegal cartels, swallowing up govt funds for their own selfish needs, extortion through various means, shoddy completion/implementation of projects due to financial gain, etc.

you describe every city in that. I'm explaining how corruption should be the least of your worries.

if your city stops growing, corruption will automatically decrease.. it'll take worse forms ofcourse.. but it'll decrease.

[venkappa]

7 minutes ago, Tryad said:

I'm sorrry that is part of doing business (especially setting a factory) anywhere in India. Don't say TG doesn't have that problem.

you'll have to pay protection money every year.. if you say TG is not like that, I'll run to TG to invest. ofcourse such a place doesn't exist in India. lite teesko.

 

Telangana has this like other Indian states. But the extent or severity is what separates some states as MORE corrupt than others. Besides, MNC extortion by local leaders is a tiny part of what defines a state govt as corrupt.

[Android_Halwa]

32 minutes ago, venkappa said:

How did Karnataka became like this? Was it always this bad?

Corruption is now institutionalized and today we are ranking states on the basis of corruption, that itself signifies that although we condemn corruption at every possible instance yet we accept corruption as part of lives. 
 

Karnataka and Tamil Nadu always, I will say they have evolved so much in corruption so that they have a parallel system in place which works well and is a norm and no one really complains. Telangana and Andhra will reach that point soon..

[Tryad]

2 minutes ago, venkappa said:

Telangana has this like other Indian states. But the extent or severity is what separates some states as MORE corrupt than others. Besides, MNC extortion by local leaders is a tiny part of what defines a state govt as corrupt.

you have a funny way of ranking for corruption..

anyway I don't agree with any of your analysis.. peace.