Chola Hindu Identity

[telugu_fan]

17 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

haha.. okay. I'm done. its a waste of your time and my time.

Okay lets agree to disagree here. But if you are going to state something with authority it is always best to have the correct info.

I will say this your sources of info are not just biased, but heavily one-sided on a good day and completely incorrect or a normal day. (which is what a news source shouldn't be).

[Raven_Rayes]

3 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Karanataka Govt argued by itself using the state AG in the high court. Any religious activity or freedom of speech is subject to the morality, law and order limitations as stated by constitutions in India.

lmao.

[Raven_Rayes]

8 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Okay lets agree to disagree here. But if you are going to state something with authority it is always best to have the correct info.

I will say this your sources of info are not just biased, but heavily one-sided on a good day and completely incorrect or a normal day. (which is what a news source shouldn't be).

i state with absolute authority that I'm right.. I'm not in the mood to puncture holes in everything you say.. I've done that several times already with others in this db, who've repeated your exact talking points.

its just not worth it.

its impossible to convince someone who so cocksure that Hindus are being attacked for their religious beliefs, but wants to pretend like muslims are doing fine/okay. you are clearly are notarguing in good faith. there's no point. I don't think you can argue in good faith even, given you are convinced that BJP govt has done no wrong. I don't have the time to prove you wrong.

what's your source of info? opindia? I clearly remember reading the chargesheet against Tahir Hussain/Umar Khalid and it was a fcuking joke. That's enough source for me to conclude that police have nothing against him or Umar Khalid and are just shooting in the dark and hoping to hit something by chance.

in any decent country, they'd have been given bail long back.

 

[telugu_fan]

32 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

i state with absolute authority that I'm right.. I'm not in the mood to puncture holes in everything you say.. I've done that several times already with others in this db, who've repeated your exact talking points.

its just not worth it.

its impossible to convince someone who so cocksure that Hindus are being attacked for their religious beliefs, but wants to pretend like muslims are doing fine/okay. you are clearly are notarguing in good faith. there's no point. I don't think you can argue in good faith even, given you are convinced that BJP govt has done no wrong. I don't have the time to prove you wrong.

what's your source of info? opindia? I clearly remember reading the chargesheet against Tahir Hussain/Umar Khalid and it was a fcuking joke. That's enough source for me to conclude that police have nothing against him or Umar Khalid and are just shooting in the dark and hoping to hit something by chance.

in any decent country, they'd have been given bail long back.

 

The first line is the main indication that you are not in a mood to listen and believe you know everything.

Nowhere in my posts have i said BJP has done fantastic, marvelous out of the world good job. Neither have i said that Muslims are doing fine or okay.

I have only said people masquerading as atheists are focusing on Hindu rituals while turning blind eye to every other rituals. You attempted to first justify it by saying majority religion/group needs to be attacked and then attempted to balance it out saying the hindutvadis are attacking muslims and leftists are attacking the Hindus.

My point then and now is Atheists or the present leftists who are masquerading as such by targeting Hindus only and people like you cheering them on create the counter polarization thus helping to fuel hindutva. If the atheists were balanced targeting all dogmatic beliefs it would have given them credibility and helped shape and mould people's opinion. People hatred of majority or hindus will only ultimately create the rise of hindutva.

Th IB staffer was murdered in Tahir Husseins house and in the time frame that he was in the house and in some of that time was roaming on his rooftops with a weapon. He confessed to that murder occurring in his house. Sure you can contest that maybe he was coerced, forced tortured, but a person of your stature if he has seen the world surely doesn't think that Tahir Hussein is innocent.

The police just don't frame charge sheets they also reverse construct the whole scene to help in framing the charge sheet. Instead of people jumping with joy or anger or disgust based on a bail application they should also read what a presiding judge has remarked in the written order.

Your info on Karnataka hijab/burqa case and CAA law itself are based on incorrect info. No use arguing with someone that doesn't think he has wrong info or is willing to see if there is any other info.

[telugu_fan]

44 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

france doesn't have greater than 10% illiteracy among its 6-19yr old girls.

That is why the govt is still trying to increase education of the girl child through its Beti padao and Beti Bachao scheme. It provides for expectant mothers fortified food to take care of themselves and also for the infants formula milk to aid in their development.

The govt wants girls to study and also increased the marriageble age to 21 now. These are steps that will take a long time to show effect, but the programs alwas go on through govt servants and NGO organisations to have girls also get educated as they will be raiing their family.

I don't know about France's illiteracy in 6-19 year olds. but going by your argument its seems to be okay if the illiteracy rate is not greater than 10% then that govt can ban burqa in public? because the argument was about girl education and govt banning burqa in public, both of which are exclusive and deoesn't depend on each other.

[Raven_Rayes]

25 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

That is why the govt is still trying to increase education of the girl child through its Beti padao and Beti Bachao scheme. It provides for expectant mothers fortified food to take care of themselves and also for the infants formula milk to aid in their development.

The govt wants girls to study and also increased the marriageble age to 21 now. These are steps that will take a long time to show effect, but the programs alwas go on through govt servants and NGO organisations to have girls also get educated as they will be raiing their family.

I don't know about France's illiteracy in 6-19 year olds. but going by your argument its seems to be okay if the illiteracy rate is not greater than 10% then that govt can ban burqa in public? because the argument was about girl education and govt banning burqa in public, both of which are exclusive and deoesn't depend on each other.

Govt is responsible for educating kids. Not come with stupid reasons that can hamper it. What's the govt or the institution problem if a few girls cover their head? 

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

The first line is the main indication that you are not in a mood to listen and believe you know everything.

Nowhere in my posts have i said BJP has done fantastic, marvelous out of the world good job. Neither have i said that Muslims are doing fine or okay.

I have only said people masquerading as atheists are focusing on Hindu rituals while turning blind eye to every other rituals. You attempted to first justify it by saying majority religion/group needs to be attacked and then attempted to balance it out saying the hindutvadis are attacking muslims and leftists are attacking the Hindus.

My point then and now is Atheists or the present leftists who are masquerading as such by targeting Hindus only and people like you cheering them on create the counter polarization thus helping to fuel hindutva. If the atheists were balanced targeting all dogmatic beliefs it would have given them credibility and helped shape and mould people's opinion. People hatred of majority or hindus will only ultimately create the rise of hindutva.

Th IB staffer was murdered in Tahir Husseins house and in the time frame that he was in the house and in some of that time was roaming on his rooftops with a weapon. He confessed to that murder occurring in his house. Sure you can contest that maybe he was coerced, forced tortured, but a person of your stature if he has seen the world surely doesn't think that Tahir Hussein is innocent.

The police just don't frame charge sheets they also reverse construct the whole scene to help in framing the charge sheet. Instead of people jumping with joy or anger or disgust based on a bail application they should also read what a presiding judge has remarked in the written order.

Your info on Karnataka hijab/burqa case and CAA law itself are based on incorrect info. No use arguing with someone that doesn't think he has wrong info or is willing to see if there is any other info.

Leftists will only target those in power. That is their mo. 

My info is not wrong at all. your info looks like it comes from opindia. I just don't have the patience to counter it. My interests lie elsewhere.

One thing is sure that I don't hate Hindus, and I've long given up mocking Hindu rituals even though I don't follow them. I only hate India. I'm that kind of atheist and I'm not even leftist. 

I'm just not interested in this conversation. I'm numb to such attitudes as yours now.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

I have only said people masquerading as atheists are focusing on Hindu rituals while turning blind eye to every other rituals. You attempted to first justify it by saying majority religion/group needs to be attacked and then attempted to balance it out saying the hindutvadis are attacking muslims and leftists are attacking the Hindus.

this is an example of bad faith argument. you expect atheists brought up in the hindu tradition to attack Islam?

don't bring up javed akhtar.. if he's attacking Hindu rituals, he's a fcuking asshole.

Irfan Habib is some historian right? I don't know which of his professional view of Indian history felt like an attack on Hinduism for you. BJP supporters can be very sensitive about these things and get riled up over nothing.,

If a scholar says something that is worthy of a debate, how's that an attack? unless he's not open for a debate.. not with rowdy sanghi elements online, but with actual people who can debate on good faith.

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Govt is responsible for educating kids. Not come with stupid reasons that can hamper it. What's the govt or the institution problem if a few girls cover their head? 

Govt is responsible for a lot of things and will prioritize based on available funds and ofcourse elections and politics. That isn't the problem here.

The problem here is a bunch of ignorant kids who are coming in to trying to change what established rule the institution is run with. The rules for the said institution were setup many years before, not after 2014 or 2018 as you like to believe it. The girls if they want hijab or burqa have other institutions also that cater to them, but by attending an institution that has explicit rules that don't allow for a burqa are trying to change it using minority or islamophobe attacks.

Tomorrow the same institution will have someone from brahmin community saying they will not sit in the same vicinity as they have a madi or acharam, is the institution supposed to honor that. In a co-ed place will institutions allow brahmin boys to come topless showing their janeu and jains to come naked as it is allowed in their religion.  Or the same muslim kids saying we want to pra five time ina  day so we need appropriate breaks for the same when that particular institution doesn't cater for that?

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Leftists will only target those in power. That is their mo. 

My info is not wrong at all. your info looks like it comes from opindia. I just don't have the patience to counter it. My interests lie elsewhere.

One thing is sure that I don't hate Hindus, and I've long given up mocking Hindu rituals even though I don't follow them. I only hate India. I'm that kind of atheist and I'm not even leftist. 

I'm just not interested in this conversation. I'm numb to such attitudes as yours now.

Leftists will target those in power until they themselves get power and then lock everyone up or kill everyone that oppose them. That is their mo. case in point is west bengal and the political murders that went there for pretty long time.

My info comes from everywhere like NDTV also which on the opposite end of the spectrum, as i said i don't go by news channels trying to drum up a controversy for ratings.

If you hate India and are calling yourself "that kind of atheist" that is pretty wrong classification.

I can see you are positively numb for a lot of things, but to keep yourself in that state you seem to be looking out or news that will buttress your POV and in return build up your confirmation bias again.

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said:

this is an example of bad faith argument. you expect atheists brought up in the hindu tradition to attack Islam?

don't bring up javed akhtar.. if he's attacking Hindu rituals, he's a fcuking asshole.

Irfan Habib is some historian right? I don't know which of his professional view of Indian history felt like an attack on Hinduism for you. BJP supporters can be very sensitive about these things and get riled up over nothing.,

If a scholar says something that is worthy of a debate, how's that an attack? unless he's not open for a debate.. not with rowdy sanghi elements online, but with actual people who can debate on good faith.

Atheists brought up in Hindu faith will attack Hinduism for the social ills they might have seen/encountered/heard/learnt. But if you are calling yourself atheists that challenge conventions and blind faith, then cover everything, else call yourself as only Hindu reformers or something. Don't name yourself as global citizen, human rights as though Hindus are the only one trampling the rights.

Most of these people are not some teenagers to jump up and down some of them in their late 50's -60's are all there heading dubious organizations.

Besides from what i have seen in debates people point out in questions saying there are many more issues that take place in India itself, but you won't find the same atheists even murmer something as to condemn, they will infact defend it as something that the "other" community will come out of blindly.

Irfan habib is a narrow minded individual who was also a leftist, and islamist when it suited him. He is also the same bugger that will talk constitution and rights and try to attack a governor Arif Mohammad Khan when he was delivering a lecture. His professional view of indian history is not an attack on Hinduism, but it is an unprofessional conduct by the said historian.

This said historian couldn't or wouldn't step in allahabad high court during the 2010-2012 (mind you center and state had secular govts) and tell his professional views on the disputed structure (because his lies would be caught) under oath. Its far easier to have an oped written by his students who will quote him in an article to lend a flair of authority on the subject. this is an east=y high profile example, there are more about how his groupisms destroyed many a career and who didn't toe the pov of the said groups or individuals. Less said about that cretin, the better.

[Telugodura456]

14 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

Atheists brought up in Hindu faith will attack Hinduism for the social ills they might have seen/encountered/heard/learnt. But if you are calling yourself atheists that challenge conventions and blind faith, then cover everything, else call yourself as only Hindu reformers or something. Don't name yourself as global citizen, human rights as though Hindus are the only one trampling the rights.

Most of these people are not some teenagers to jump up and down some of them in their late 50's -60's are all there heading dubious organizations.

Besides from what i have seen in debates people point out in questions saying there are many more issues that take place in India itself, but you won't find the same atheists even murmer something as to condemn, they will infact defend it as something that the "other" community will come out of blindly.

Irfan habib is a narrow minded individual who was also a leftist, and islamist when it suited him. He is also the same bugger that will talk constitution and rights and try to attack a governor Arif Mohammad Khan when he was delivering a lecture. His professional view of indian history is not an attack on Hinduism, but it is an unprofessional conduct by the said historian.

This said historian couldn't or wouldn't step in allahabad high court during the 2010-2012 (mind you center and state had secular govts) and tell his professional views on the disputed structure (because his lies would be caught) under oath. Its far easier to have an oped written by his students who will quote him in an article to lend a flair of authority on the subject. this is an east=y high profile example, there are more about how his groupisms destroyed many a career and who didn't toe the pov of the said groups or individuals. Less said about that cretin, the better.

Why are you attacking leftists ? true leftists solve religious mess very well. Look at muslim majority countries which lived under Soviet union or muslims in china - they tend to be more modern.

Ofcourse unlike sanghis they first  go hard on majority bigotry . And then will come for minority bigotry.

The problem in india is lack of credibility - when you give full play to hindu casteist bigotry - like ayudha puja in govt labs, breaking coconuts when receiving rafales by defense minister - then you cannot tell what muslims must wear.

[telugu_fan]

4 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

Why are you attacking leftists ? true leftists solve religious mess very well. Look at muslim majority countries which lived under Soviet union or muslims in china - they tend to be more modern.

Ofcourse unlike sanghis they first  go hard on majority bigotry . And then will come for minority bigotry.

The problem in india is lack of credibility - when you give full play to hindu casteist bigotry - like ayudha puja in govt labs, breaking coconuts when receiving rafales by defense minister - then you cannot tell what muslims must wear.

I am not  attacking any leftists. i am attacking the people who call themselves atheists and use that label to attack only one set of people and their customs/superstitions. this is what will lead to people of that community to have polarization and lead to hindutva.

Any countries that have become modern muslim or otherwise have very little to do with communism and more to do with a strong man dictator tactics that have gone full hog implementing the changes and crushing any sort of dissent. I am atleast not aware of any middle eastern countries that are modern in their outlook due to Soviet influence. The rulers outlook generally decides the outlook. Iran after ayatollahs took over have gone more islamic and they were supported by Soviets as an example.

Muslims in china are a poor example, atleast coming to Uighur muslims where the chinese govt has passed diktats that they cannot grow beards, or have islamic names or even a dome shaped mosques, but have a building with chinese characteristics. try implementing the same in India and people will cry bloody murder.

You are conflating ayuda puja that occurs on Vijay Dashmi for celebrating the victory of good over evil and praying to the very weapons that were used by Godess Durga with breaking coconuts and dress code in schools.

We have Mothers day, fathers day, valentines day where on that one day, a set of people are given importance, rest of the year maybe left off, a day to celebrate tools of trade is normally not a bad idea. But you can definitely make an argument that modern society doesn't need breaking coconuts and put their faith in the confines of their home.

When you are attending a school, you have to follow the dress code. You cannot join a school and in the middle of the school year demand that you will have your own dress citing religious beliefs (however dubious at that). Many people working in offices have formal dress code. Do you think after joining the company if you break those rules you will be treated with kid gloves even if you shout discrimination or racism?

[Chevilopuvvu]

Oka rendu moodu id lalla achi nik nuvve quote seskoni10g

[Telugodura456]

2 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

I am not  attacking any leftists. i am attacking the people who call themselves atheists and use that label to attack only one set of people and their customs/superstitions. this is what will lead to people of that community to have polarization and lead to hindutva.

Any countries that have become modern muslim or otherwise have very little to do with communism and more to do with a strong man dictator tactics that have gone full hog implementing the changes and crushing any sort of dissent. I am atleast not aware of any middle eastern countries that are modern in their outlook due to Soviet influence. The rulers outlook generally decides the outlook. Iran after ayatollahs took over have gone more islamic and they were supported by Soviets as an example.

Muslims in china are a poor example, atleast coming to Uighur muslims where the chinese govt has passed diktats that they cannot grow beards, or have islamic names or even a dome shaped mosques, but have a building with chinese characteristics. try implementing the same in India and people will cry bloody murder.

You are conflating ayuda puja that occurs on Vijay Dashmi for celebrating the victory of good over evil and praying to the very weapons that were used by Godess Durga with breaking coconuts and dress code in schools.

We have Mothers day, fathers day, valentines day where on that one day, a set of people are given importance, rest of the year maybe left off, a day to celebrate tools of trade is normally not a bad idea. But you can definitely make an argument that modern society doesn't need breaking coconuts and put their faith in the confines of their home.

When you are attending a school, you have to follow the dress code. You cannot join a school and in the middle of the school year demand that you will have your own dress citing religious beliefs (however dubious at that). Many people working in offices have formal dress code. Do you think after joining the company if you break those rules you will be treated with kid gloves even if you shout discrimination or racism?

Soviets were not strongmen. They had party leaders who changed frequenty. infact it was the only country in the world which allowed itself to be dissolved peacefully.

Do bosnians, kazhaks, uzbeks look like fanatics - i dont think so.

China doesnt pass any diktats on beards or names.

IN all of it you are ignoring the main point. You can go after minorities only after fully reforming majorities. Thats the problem indian govt has when it comes to enforcing anything on muslims.