Is USA done?

[telugu_fan]

9 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Its upto the parents to be close to their kids well being. they can try to talk to their kids with an open mind and try and understand where they come from. I bet majority parents fail at that.

Its fine if blockers are administered behind parent's backs.

I agree with the first part, parents will need to have more conversations and open up, but still don't agree with the second one about going behind parents backs.

[Raven_Rayes]

15 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I think a kid aged 4-7 years needn't concern themselves with the number of genders. they are learning things with confusing things like pnk is for girls and blue is for boys with preconditioned programming, don't need more as of now. mabe 10 year leter they can start exploring about it when thye have some ideas of attraction and sexuality.

are you sure 'pink is for girls' is something that trans activists teach? I've heard my nephew say this when he was hardly 4yrs old, and pretty sure my sis would throw a fit if he did pick it up from 'gender studies' at his playschool.. which btw was in India. Pink is for girls is something conservatives would say. Not progressives, I think.

15 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I said the govt focusing on equality of outcomes will make it soft. When i said the govt should engage it should be with parents, special interest groups (like churches or congregations that generally oppose lgbtq) and communities as a whole, then the teaching will come from home as any basic not force gender studies in schools for age inappropriate kids.

How is govt focusing on equality of outcomes with lgbt? to urge people to please not kill lgbt is not even close to focusing on equality of outcomes. society is conservative for the most part, even though the environment the social dynamics operate in is liberal. there will be friction. Its unavoidable. cis people should learn to treat trans people well. that's it. There are no excuses for the behaviour of majority of cis people.

the kind of engagement you speak about is impractical. just attend local community hall meetings and see how disgusting people can be, when they are faced with something they don't like. there's no way to get these people to care by preaching to them. you have to make certain types of interactions with lgbt punishable with the highest crime.

[Raven_Rayes]

10 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I agree with the first part, parents will need to have more conversations and open up, but still don't agree with the second one about going behind parents backs.

means you are okay with the kid being abused. okay.

I think parents are irrelevant.

[Raven_Rayes]

@telugu_fan see this is how 'community people' behave. they don't give a fcuk about anything that even slightly inconveniences them. even if it means it can save other people's lives. I say they should be made to feel extremely uncomfortable. fcuk them. preaching to them is a waste of time.

 

[telugu_fan]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:49 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

fine. no one forced you to hire lgbt person.

I will hire lgbt person if they have the skill to do a job, over a normal person with similar skillset.

 

if i am reading your comment right, you are saying that you would hire a person from lgbtq oevr others if the skill sets are same/similar. Maybe you cold expand on why you would want to hire them.

In the absence of such an explanation, i can only assume that this a form of reservation/affirmative action where a person of certain group is preferred over the others just because they belong to a certain community. Isn't this what you always rail about regarding people fighting over reservations?

[telugu_fan]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:58 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

@telugu_fan dude, may be you've not noticed.. puberty blockers have been used in India decades earlier for increasing height in short kids.

my aunt, a doc, used it for her kids .

when it is to give time to kids to consider which gender they are comfortable with, it suddenly becomes a huge issue that can even pull down national strength is it?

like I said, nations are outdated. They are going down. neither dumb strongmen like Modi, nor future psycho transgender power mongers can save any nation. All nations will break purely due to their internal contradictions. US, India, China.. no exceptions.

Gender studies is just storm in a teacup.

In the point above, did the doctors administer it to the kids without parents consent or were not he pros and cons of what ever known at that time explained to the parents and then used. did the doctors decide to use it on the kids citing some abuse or knowing more than the parents themselves.

Kids are comfortable with whatever genders and they will have to be counseled/talk to doctors to make sure that in a year or two they don't change again. And this has to be followed by informing parents.

Same reason we don't let kids buy alcohol or firearms or tobacco beyond a certain age, otherwise the same principle of teens/kids knowing whats best for them applies here as well (i know gender and alcohol are not the same, but if we are purely going by letting the kid do what he/she/they want then why not everything).

[telugu_fan]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:06 AM, Raven_Rayes said:

are you sure 'pink is for girls' is something that trans activists teach? I've heard my nephew say this when he was hardly 4yrs old, and pretty sure my sis would throw a fit if he did pick it up from 'gender studies' at his playschool.. which btw was in India. Pink is for girls is something conservatives would say. Not progressives, I think.

How is govt focusing on equality of outcomes with lgbt? to urge people to please not kill lgbt is not even close to focusing on equality of outcomes. society is conservative for the most part, even though the environment the social dynamics operate in is liberal. there will be friction. Its unavoidable. cis people should learn to treat trans people well. that's it. There are no excuses for the behaviour of majority of cis people.

the kind of engagement you speak about is impractical. just attend local community hall meetings and see how disgusting people can be, when they are faced with something they don't like. there's no way to get these people to care by preaching to them. you have to make certain types of interactions with lgbt punishable with the highest crime.

I am saying the color differentiation based on what kids see around them in mass media or programs. The kids are confused in a way that they think that certain colors are for certain genders. i am not talking about what trans people teach/gender studies teach. i am talking about the confusion that exists in little kids minds when they are growing up and they tend to learn more and grow out of it/ into it based on their preferences.

Focusing to hire a person of a particular community just based on various notions of biases, previous info on discrimination will lead to outcome of equality when the situations should be putting everyone on same pedestal and going to appoint/hire the best for the job. (of course that is theory and there will be deviations based on real world and its the govt or various involved organizations job to try to reduce the friction).

[telugu_fan]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:10 AM, Raven_Rayes said:

means you are okay with the kid being abused. okay.

I think parents are irrelevant.

Didn't you say Parents should open up and have more talk with kids now you say parents are irrelevant. So are you also irrelevant in your kids life?

I am saying Parents also need to educate their kids at home on any issue. Sure kids will learn from authority in schools, but it will help if parents instill the basic qualities of acceptance of people as such and not classify them as boys/girls/lgbtq.

eg: Some guy is trans, you shouldn't accept him because he is trans specifically but just that he is a human being and by and large a decent person. A person who is an insufferable asshole will still have to be dealt with irrespective of their gender or socio-cultural religious background. This is what i mean by kids being taught to accept people instead of trying to split them in groups.

[telugu_fan]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:13 AM, Raven_Rayes said:

@telugu_fan see this is how 'community people' behave. they don't give a fcuk about anything that even slightly inconveniences them. even if it means it can save other people's lives. I say they should be made to feel extremely uncomfortable. fcuk them. preaching to them is a waste of time.

 

and in saying how you feel about them, you are displaying the same behavior you are accusing the other person of. Just because a section/group has power they can't be doing the same thing they have accused the other side opposing them.

they are in effect no different from others and shouldn't be taking a higher ground moral or otherwise.

That is why I said the govt has to repeatedly engage, if the govt can't then maybe an organization can take it over. You will not convert everyone in one go, You might change a few people/affect a thooufht process and then with repeated explanations you will change substantial portion of population over time. you need time and patience for that willing to do a lot of work for what you believe to be greater good for the whole community.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

if i am reading your comment right, you are saying that you would hire a person from lgbtq oevr others if the skill sets are same/similar. Maybe you cold expand on why you would want to hire them.

In the absence of such an explanation, i can only assume that this a form of reservation/affirmative action where a person of certain group is preferred over the others just because they belong to a certain community. Isn't this what you always rail about regarding people fighting over reservations?

if the skill sets are similar, is it reservation?

I would hire lgbt person because I want the world to become full of lgbt people so it'll be safe to be lgbt again. same way I'll hire girls over guys if the skill sets are similar. I love more girls coming into tech.

what will you do if the skill sets are similar? make a toss? lmao.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

43 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

and in saying how you feel about them, you are displaying the same behavior you are accusing the other person of. Just because a section/group has power they can't be doing the same thing they have accused the other side opposing them.

they are in effect no different from others and shouldn't be taking a higher ground moral or otherwise.

That is why I said the govt has to repeatedly engage, if the govt can't then maybe an organization can take it over. You will not convert everyone in one go, You might change a few people/affect a thooufht process and then with repeated explanations you will change substantial portion of population over time. you need time and patience for that willing to do a lot of work for what you believe to be greater good for the whole community.

same behaviour really? my behaviour will not result in those assholes getting killed in the street. If it does, I will be careful about what I say.

you should try to change people's thought process once, and tell me how you did it. so far, you are only pushing status quo, which is like super duper easy peasy. you won't be spat on by people, you won't be mocked. you won't be ridiculed.

its so easy for someone like you to lecture to me on how I should engage.

govts do try to engage all the time. but its useless sometimes. That's why the nurse in your trans eg gets fired. Not claiming that govts are perfect and have good feedback mechanisms that allow only good ideas to flow through them.. but those opposing govts on certain issues are straight up assholes. There's nothing to be gained by consistently engaging with them. Now and then, imprisoning them, firing them is the easiest thing to do.

Just like you guys jail terrorists. Should I say you should try to reason with them without ever killing them? you should try.

[Raven_Rayes]

57 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Didn't you say Parents should open up and have more talk with kids now you say parents are irrelevant. So are you also irrelevant in your kids life?

I am saying Parents also need to educate their kids at home on any issue. Sure kids will learn from authority in schools, but it will help if parents instill the basic qualities of acceptance of people as such and not classify them as boys/girls/lgbtq.

eg: Some guy is trans, you shouldn't accept him because he is trans specifically but just that he is a human being and by and large a decent person. A person who is an insufferable asshole will still have to be dealt with irrespective of their gender or socio-cultural religious background. This is what i mean by kids being taught to accept people instead of trying to split them in groups.

yeah. parents have no right over the kid's body.

so what are you saying? schools are teaching kids to accept that trans people are inherently good? and that its a virtue to be a trans person? lmao.

on the other hand, parents are teaching kids to hate trans people. should I give you examples in this db itself? highly respectable ids who are straight up bigots when it comes to lgbt. one of them even claimed that they would disown the kid if the kid opens up as lgbt. and you think kids should be forced to deal with this nonsense instead of just living their life.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

In the point above, did the doctors administer it to the kids without parents consent or were not he pros and cons of what ever known at that time explained to the parents and then used. did the doctors decide to use it on the kids citing some abuse or knowing more than the parents themselves.

Kids are comfortable with whatever genders and they will have to be counseled/talk to doctors to make sure that in a year or two they don't change again. And this has to be followed by informing parents.

Same reason we don't let kids buy alcohol or firearms or tobacco beyond a certain age, otherwise the same principle of teens/kids knowing whats best for them applies here as well (i know gender and alcohol are not the same, but if we are purely going by letting the kid do what he/she/they want then why not everything).

is refusing to admit that your kid may be confused about his/her gender, parental abuse or not. tell that first.

alcohol/firearm analogy doesn't work. coz transitions beyond a certain age is extremely hard. transition happens much more smoothly when its done before puberty hits, and that's why blockers, duh.

its the kid's well being that is the concern. parents insecurity about their kids gender is not an issue. they can go fcuk themselves, and prepare to spend the rest of their lives with kids who hate them.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

That is why I said the govt has to repeatedly engage, if the govt can't then maybe an organization can take it over. You will not convert everyone in one go, You might change a few people/affect a thooufht process and then with repeated explanations you will change substantial portion of population over time. you need time and patience for that willing to do a lot of work for what you believe to be greater good for the whole community.

keep making excuses for assholes dude. govts are not jailing parents and taking away their kids. chill.

its just a blocker. like I said, it was taken in the past for several other issues. Nothing new when done with doctor's supervision. parents are immaterial, once they decide to not engage with the kid in fair terms.

no one is going to wait for decades until parents change their thought process. Already a lot of transitioning adults are under severe trauma. It only makes sense to catch them young.

you make zero sense really on this issue. plus extrapolating from this, to claim that usa will lose its principal position because of this.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

they are in effect no different from others and shouldn't be taking a higher ground moral or otherwise.

when they do have the higher moral ground in an issue, why shouldn't they take it?

I bet you can't make a moral argument against going around parent's consent to administer kids with the blockers. because it is not immoral at all.

people whine about everything. sometimes its best to shut them down and move on. or humanity doesn't get anywhere.

there are so many immoral things a govt does, like clearing slums and giving them land in city outskirts when there's an obvious moral solution to the problem of slums. these are things that will fcuk the nation. Oh I forgot, your fav Modi allowing 3 days for the hooligans to unleash their terror on minorities is another extreme case of immoral sh1t. These are the things that will take the nation down.

administering blockers without telling parents is likely to strengthen the nation, on the contrary. will enable the nation to have a stronger pool of confident adults to draw from in their 'nation building'... lmao. its gonna fail ultimately i know

but atleast we'll fight other more interesting battles.. than battles over kids mental health.