A basic income for everyone? Yes, Finland shows it really can work

[tennisluvr]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income

In a speck of a village deep in the Finnish countryside, a man gets money for free. Each month, almost €560 (£500) is dropped into his bank account, with no strings attached. The cash is his to use as he wants. Who is his benefactor? The Helsinki government. The prelude to a thriller, perhaps, or some reality TV. But Juha Järvinen’s story is ultimately more exciting. He is a human lab rat in an experiment that could help to shape the future of the west.

Last Christmas, Järvinen was selected by the state as one of 2,000 unemployed people for a trial of universal basic income. You may have heard of UBI, or the policy of literally giving people money for nothing. It’s an idea that lights up the brains of both radical leftists – John McDonnell and Bernie Sanders – and Silicon Valley plutocrats such as Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. And in the long slump that has followed the banking crash, it is one of the few alternatives put forward that doesn’t taste like a reheat.

Try as I might to imagine Theresa May or Philip Hammond giving to the poor with no questions, I still draw a blank

Yet hardly anyone knows what it might actually look like. For all the fuss, Finland is the first European country to launch a major dry run. It is not the purists’ UBI – which would give everyone, even billionaires, a monthly sum. Nor will Finland publish any results until the two-year pilot is over at the end of 2018. In the meantime, we rely on the testimony of participants such as Järvinen. Which is why I have to fly to Helsinki, then drive the five hours to meet him.

Ask Järvinen what difference money for nothing has made to his life, and you are marched over to his workshop. Inside is film-making equipment, a blackboard on which is scrawled plans for an artists’ version of Airbnb, and an entire little room where he makes shaman drums that sell for up to €900. All this while helping to bring up six children. All those free euros have driven him to work harder than ever.

None of this would have been possible before he received UBI. Until this year, Järvinen was on dole money; the Finnish equivalent of the jobcentre was always on his case about job applications and training. Ideas flow out of Järvinen as easily as water from a tap, yet he could exercise none of his initiative for fear of arousing bureaucratic scrutiny.

In one talked-about case last year, an unemployed Finn called Christian was caught carving and selling wooden guitar plectrums. It was more pastime than business, earning him a little more than €2,000 in a year. But the sum was not what angered the authorities, it was the thought that each plectrum had taken up time that could have been spent on official hoop-jumping.

[Android_Halwa]

This is pretty much going to happen in India sooner or later..

This method is lot better when it comes to distribution of income....instead of giving subsidies and freebies, its better to transfer some basic amount and let people decide what they want to do with it...absolute sense of democracy :-)

Nordic countries are far better than their western counterparts in maintaining the quality of life standards. 

Over to @uttermost for further analysis..

[uttermost]

1. No, it doesn't work.

2. Bernie Sanders is not a 'radical' leftist. He's not even a leftist. There are no leftists in popular US politics. Sanders is a pragmatist and a largely decent man. nothing more.

3. If Mark Zuckerberg, Musk propose an idea as good, its time to run as far away as possible from it.

giving a basic income is a flop anyway. They tried it in Canada too. It won't work because it replaces govt programs for the needy. Nobody can stop capitalism crumbling, and all those smug middleclass /upperclass lose their wealth and dignity. 

No society can keep pace with innovation, especially when its concentrated at the top, and knowledge is not open to everyone.

I hope robots run amok. I actually don't hope, I'll try to make it happen. humanity is a disgusting excuse for a species. Lets welcome our robot overlords. 

[uttermost]

7 minutes ago, Android_Halwa said:

This is pretty much going to happen in India sooner or later..

This method is lot better when it comes to distribution of income....instead of giving subsidies and freebies, its better to transfer some basic amount and let people decide what they want to do with it...absolute sense of democracy :-)

Nordic countries are far better than their western counterparts in maintaining the quality of life standards. 

Over to @uttermost for further analysis..

lol. have you ever lived in Europe? I have. Its much worse than living in the US. Lots of desperate angry young men who are not rednecks.

when a govt gives a 'subsidy' and a 'freebie', govt can use its leverage and the volume of quantity it orders to buy for cheap and give. when the same amount is transferred as a basic income, then the market shows its ugly face by fleecing the guy who tries to spend that money.

basic income is a stupid idea.

[uttermost]

15 minutes ago, Android_Halwa said:

This is pretty much going to happen in India sooner or later..

This method is lot better when it comes to distribution of income....instead of giving subsidies and freebies, its better to transfer some basic amount and let people decide what they want to do with it...absolute sense of democracy :-)

Nordic countries are far better than their western counterparts in maintaining the quality of life standards. 

Over to @uttermost for further analysis..

absolute democracy is when people can decide with their vote. not when they get alms from the govt.

that kind of democracy scares people who built their life on scheming, and providing humanity nothing of value.

[uttermost]

Finland has pretty much slid since the fall of Nokia. and still sliding. its a wonderful country with an efficient govt, and I loved Espoo, but there are serious problems with its economic transfer schemes. I think its the one country that is running a bigger deficit than is allowed by the union. But that's not its problem. 

Major problem. there are not many employed people in Finland. 

Next problem. Even those who are employed are mostly contract workers.

Another problem. being in the European union, and being stuck with their silly austerity measures.

The idea of a nation is crumbling all around.

 

[uttermost]

I think pretty much the west is fcuked.

Not like the east is any better. They are also fcuked.

haha..

[uttermost]

 raising ethnonationalist false flags like 'Islam', 'left', 'terror', to keep the people busy from seeing the world around them getting more and more complicated for them to even begin to understand.

I'm going to enjoy when it does crumble and people kill for bread on the street.

[uttermost]

One thing about Europe though. way less scamsters posing as honorable businessmen, than the scamster paradise USA.

 

[uttermost]

The next economic collapse in the US, will trigger a lot of political changes around the world.

because the US, with its monetary tricks, and shale production, is the only thing that's keeping the status quo in the world.

It is on the brink.

I've made my retirement money. So unless my house is ransacked, and I'm killed, I'm mostly good.

[boeing747]

[alooparata]

matter in 4 lines pls 

[uttermost]

3 minutes ago, boeing747 said:

won't be long before people opt socialism. but what is socialism? I don't think US can ever be socialist. They'll settle for high taxes and low growth like Europe, and call it socialism.

[uttermost]

I'm more interested to see how Japan, Korea become when the western economy collapses.

They'll return to their feudal ways. lol.

[boeing747]

5 minutes ago, uttermost said:

won't be long before people opt socialism. but what is socialism? I don't think US can ever be socialist. They'll settle for high taxes and low growth like Europe, and call it socialism.

west is pretty much fcuked up and capitalism will ensure that any leftover sense will be made redundant