Chola Hindu Identity

[telugu_fan]

1 hour ago, Raven_Rayes said:

atheists in any region will only attack the majority religion

talk to atheists in pakistan, iran, indonesia if you want.

a lot of Indian atheists are actually cowards making excuses for sanghis and defending BJP excesses in the name of nationalism. pathetic.

 

atheism actually means not believing in deity or god or benefactor. Them targeting the majority religion is only a copout. Are the minorities religion is not an organised one?

the atheists in Kerala don't seem to attack the church or Islam (one of them is the largest land holding entity in the state after the govt and the other has the largest number of followers).

Self proclaimed atheists like javed Akhtar and Irfan habib are just oppurtunist who use their platform of atheism to spew bile on Hindus and its rituals. trying to shame hindu rituals while being silent on rituals elsewhere. You should question ridicule any or all rituals that you think don't meet scientific standard, but that love is reserved for Hindus only it looks like and this is not about selling to the BJP or Sangis, it creates an impression in the common man that these are not atheists, but just hypocrites.

the best example is that Trupti Desai who called herself a feminist/reformist and all fighting for woman to enter Sabrimala and shani Shignapur without restrictions and woman pujaris, but on open debate said people in Islam (muslims themselves) should decide on woman moulvis and woman entering masjids. it is these kind of uttering that destroy their credibility and because Hindus don't react violently they are doing these kind of idiocy.

I am yet to see any atheist from Pakistan and Iran living in those countries and attacking the dominant religion there consistently. any of their names also would be helpful.

[Raven_Rayes]

3 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

atheism actually means not believing in deity or god or benefactor. Them targeting the majority religion is only a copout. Are the minorities religion is not an organised one?

the atheists in Kerala don't seem to attack the church or Islam (one of them is the largest land holding entity in the state after the govt and the other has the largest number of followers).

Self proclaimed atheists like javed Akhtar and Irfan habib are just oppurtunist who use their platform of atheism to spew bile on Hindus and its rituals. trying to shame hindu rituals while being silent on rituals elsewhere. You should question ridicule any or all rituals that you think don't meet scientific standard, but that love is reserved for Hindus only it looks like and this is not about selling to the BJP or Sangis, it creates an impression in the common man that these are not atheists, but just hypocrites.

the best example is that Trupti Desai who called herself a feminist/reformist and all fighting for woman to enter Sabrimala and shani Shignapur without restrictions and woman pujaris, but on open debate said people in Islam (muslims themselves) should decide on woman moulvis and woman entering masjids. it is these kind of uttering that destroy their credibility and because Hindus don't react violently they are doing these kind of idiocy.

I am yet to see any atheist from Pakistan and Iran living in those countries and attacking the dominant religion there consistently. any of their names also would be helpful.

how is targeting a majority religion a cop out? it requires the greatest courage to target the majority religion, and the oncoming social boycott. your claim that Hindus don't react violently to these acts is just laughable given what has happened in India.

Javed Akhtar, Irfan Habib are bad examples. Its like criticizing Hinduism by bringing up sadvi pragya. If you want to target contemporary muslim atheists, Umar Khalid is a better one. the guy boldly declared that he's atheist.

if you want popular figures, Nuzrul Islam a bengali poet was an atheist who criticized Khilafat movement, and denounced it as fanning religious fundamentalism. while a religious leader - Gandhi was in support of it.

another contemporary popular atheist is the bangladeshi science writer specializing in population genetics - razib khan. follow his twitter. He kept his muslim name and has absolutely been fiercely critical of islam. He lives somewhere in Texas. He was born in Texas too.

another contemporary atheist is a girl from canada who runs a cringe podcast 'nice mangoes'. she's brutal against Islam, and only defends muslims (not the religion) against hindu nationalists, and white racists.

several high profile atheists exists dude in Islam. They are all over the internet. Majid Ali - the guy who moves around Sam Harris. He literally invents incidents to show muslims in bad light.

these are examples of some out there atheists. all of them are insane and are extremely critical of islam and muslim society. the same thing you accuse Hindu atheists of.

as far as I'm concerned majority of Hindu atheists are bigots and hide behind atheism to defend racism in Hindu culture. that's my experience as a Hindu born atheist. majority of Hindu atheist are the Ayn Rand bhakt kind. if you look at most of those that are driving hindu nationalism online, they are atheists. that's the level atheism is at in India.

[Raven_Rayes]

4 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

atheism actually means not believing in deity or god or benefactor. Them targeting the majority religion is only a copout. Are the minorities religion is not an organised one?

the atheists in Kerala don't seem to attack the church or Islam (one of them is the largest land holding entity in the state after the govt and the other has the largest number of followers).

Self proclaimed atheists like javed Akhtar and Irfan habib are just oppurtunist who use their platform of atheism to spew bile on Hindus and its rituals. trying to shame hindu rituals while being silent on rituals elsewhere. You should question ridicule any or all rituals that you think don't meet scientific standard, but that love is reserved for Hindus only it looks like and this is not about selling to the BJP or Sangis, it creates an impression in the common man that these are not atheists, but just hypocrites.

the best example is that Trupti Desai who called herself a feminist/reformist and all fighting for woman to enter Sabrimala and shani Shignapur without restrictions and woman pujaris, but on open debate said people in Islam (muslims themselves) should decide on woman moulvis and woman entering masjids. it is these kind of uttering that destroy their credibility and because Hindus don't react violently they are doing these kind of idiocy.

I am yet to see any atheist from Pakistan and Iran living in those countries and attacking the dominant religion there consistently. any of their names also would be helpful.

what you are talking about is not atheists, but leftists many of who are atheists. Javed Akhtar, Irfan Habib are just elite muslims more worried about their social prestige than about fellow muslims or hindus.

the biggest problem with south asian leftists is that they completely neglected systematic marginalization of Hindus in South Asia (outside of India), while harping on marginalization of muslims.

those 'atheists' in pakistan were busy fighting radicalism in Islam, but didn't pay much attention to the plight of Hindus in Pakistan.

Its unfortunate that the sanghis were the first to popularize hindu marginalization in pak. bang.. and they are now setting the tone in this discussion.

its another thing that they won't do anything to help those Hindus anuko.

many atheists in India today are hindu nationalists.. not anti-Hindu

[Kreole_]

Thinking out loud.. Comically there is not one major leftist movement that did not brutalize the common people in their country. 

[Raven_Rayes]

21 minutes ago, Kreole_ said:

Thinking out loud.. Comically there is not one major leftist movement that did not brutalize the common people in their country. 

you can laugh harder by thinking of any ethnonationalist movement that did not brutalize its common people.

its normal for all 'national' movements.. because nations are crap whether left or right, duh!

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said:

how is targeting a majority religion a cop out? it requires the greatest courage to target the majority religion, and the oncoming social boycott. your claim that Hindus don't react violently to these acts is just laughable given what has happened in India.

Javed Akhtar, Irfan Habib are bad examples. Its like criticizing Hinduism by bringing up sadvi pragya. If you want to target contemporary muslim atheists, Umar Khalid is a better one. the guy boldly declared that he's atheist.

if you want popular figures, Nuzrul Islam a bengali poet was an atheist who criticized Khilafat movement, and denounced it as fanning religious fundamentalism. while a religious leader - Gandhi was in support of it.

another contemporary popular atheist is the bangladeshi science writer specializing in population genetics - razib khan. follow his twitter. He kept his muslim name and has absolutely been fiercely critical of islam. He lives somewhere in Texas. He was born in Texas too.

another contemporary atheist is a girl from canada who runs a cringe podcast 'nice mangoes'. she's brutal against Islam, and only defends muslims (not the religion) against hindu nationalists, and white racists.

several high profile atheists exists dude in Islam. They are all over the internet. Majid Ali - the guy who moves around Sam Harris. He literally invents incidents to show muslims in bad light.

these are examples of some out there atheists. all of them are insane and are extremely critical of islam and muslim society. the same thing you accuse Hindu atheists of.

as far as I'm concerned majority of Hindu atheists are bigots and hide behind atheism to defend racism in Hindu culture. that's my experience as a Hindu born atheist. majority of Hindu atheist are the Ayn Rand bhakt kind. if you look at most of those that are driving hindu nationalism online, they are atheists. that's the level atheism is at in India.

It doesn't take much to criticize Hindus in India as Hindus have seldom reacted violently given the population numbers and the incidents. MF Hussein was asked to cease and desist and a court case was filed which he didn't attend and a non bailable warrant was issued and then he ran away overseas for drawing some nude paintings and naming them after Hindu goddesses. In India if Hindus react, then scream about Hindu extremism and Hindutva while trying to whitewash what the people did before.

Umar Khalid is a bad example, he is no different than Javed Akhtar or Irfan habib but doesn't have the contacts or polish/finesse in his speech to get him as an activist/atheist. His words and speeches speak of his tone as an islamist. Just declaring himself an atheist doesn't make him so.

This has caused the Hindus to take the route that Muslims take which is street violence to fight. If actions are taken without any issue of religion then maybe this wouldn't have come up in the first place. That is why atheists who are supposed to speak on every blind religious custom not conforming to science or logic find themselves exposed when talking selectively about only Hindu religion and loose support among general population.

Islam and Christianity are minority in India but a majority worldwide which also determines their funding for activities in India.

These sort of incidents actually fuel more support to BJP as no other party is seen to speak on Hindu issues. Its a different thing that BJP doesn't overtly do any support for Hindu causes either when they are in power.

All the examples you have given are way old since 1940's or people sitting somewhere in the confines of west and then writing critical material. My point was do you know of anyone who is in Pakistan, Iran and thailand that are staying there and actively fighting it. not some fellow sitting in fellowship in US or Canada and writing.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 minute ago, telugu_fan said:

All the examples you have given are way old since 1940's or people sitting somewhere in the confines of west and then writing critical material. My point was do you know of anyone who is in Pakistan, Iran and thailand that are staying there and actively fighting it. not some fellow sitting in fellowship in US or Canada and writing.

so you think Irfan Habib is popular outside India? of Trupti Desai?

Javed Akhtar is known for his lyrics may be.. not as atheist. I certainly have no idea what his views on religion is apart from some random bytes I read on my TL.

I can name pakistani citizens who are fighting the hard fight against orthodoxy in their religion.. like Malala and others, you won't know them. so whats the point?

[telugu_fan]

1 hour ago, Raven_Rayes said:

what you are talking about is not atheists, but leftists many of who are atheists. Javed Akhtar, Irfan Habib are just elite muslims more worried about their social prestige than about fellow muslims or hindus.

the biggest problem with south asian leftists is that they completely neglected systematic marginalization of Hindus in South Asia (outside of India), while harping on marginalization of muslims.

those 'atheists' in pakistan were busy fighting radicalism in Islam, but didn't pay much attention to the plight of Hindus in Pakistan.

Its unfortunate that the sanghis were the first to popularize hindu marginalization in pak. bang.. and they are now setting the tone in this discussion.

its another thing that they won't do anything to help those Hindus anuko.

many atheists in India today are hindu nationalists.. not anti-Hindu

You got the right pickup for Irfan habib and Javed Akhtar.

There is nothing the govt of India can do for the plight of Hindus in any other country that are citizens of that country. At the most might issue a diplomatic cable, but even that will be seen as interfering in other countries internal issues.

The CAA law brought would have enabled a few of them to settle in india if they choose to, but local anti- CAA agitations have put paid to those plans also.

[Raven_Rayes]

3 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

It doesn't take much to criticize Hindus in India as Hindus have seldom reacted violently given the population numbers and the incidents. MF Hussein was asked to cease and desist and a court case was filed which he didn't attend and a non bailable warrant was issued and then he ran away overseas for drawing some nude paintings and naming them after Hindu goddesses. In India if Hindus react, then scream about Hindu extremism and Hindutva while trying to whitewash what the people did before.

This has caused the Hindus to take the route that Muslims take which is street violence to fight. If actions are taken without any issue of religion then maybe this wouldn't have come up in the first place. That is why atheists who are supposed to speak on every blind religious custom not conforming to science or logic find themselves exposed when talking selectively about only Hindu religion and loose support among general population.

Your contention is that 1940s Hindus were okay with criticism of Hinduism. Pls read biography of Ambedkar to learn how tolerant Hindus were of his criticism of Hinduism.

atheists are never going to have the support of the general population. When Hindu reformers fought against sati, they faced only scorn from fellow Hindus. When daughters were allowed to stake claim for ancestral property, entire Hindu society stood up in arms against it.

today you are trying to pretend like Hindus were always tolerant or more tolerant than muslims... Its just means that atheists in pakistani society have bigger stakes, but doesn't mean atheists in Hindu society are safe. especially if the atheists are leftists. because there are bunch of atheists on the hindutva side who mock Hinduism and get away with that.

 

[telugu_fan]

4 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

so you think Irfan Habib is popular outside India? of Trupti Desai?

Javed Akhtar is known for his lyrics may be.. not as atheist. I certainly have no idea what his views on religion is apart from some random bytes I read on my TL.

I can name pakistani citizens who are fighting the hard fight against orthodoxy in their religion.. like Malala and others, you won't know them. so whats the point?

My point is very simple. These are self styled atheists who use these terms to hide their disdain for Hinduism. They are not atheists in pure sense other than to target the majority/Hindus with another point as atheists. Irfan habib has enough clout in educational setup to run things till recently. Trupti Desai is trying hard to be next set of NGO crowd puller with her antics.

I have asked if you know anyone is staying in Pakistan, iran and thailand and fighting the majority religion there because as far as I know any serious fighter will be behind bars.

yes i am interested in any serious names. Malala doesn't stay in Pakistan, she stays in UK and maybe visits Pakistan after her Nobel prize and has now taken the  usual establishment stance of Kashmir and people rights. But she doesn't live in Pakistan per se. So any other names are okay.

[Raven_Rayes]

8 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

You got the right pickup for Irfan habib and Javed Akhtar.

There is nothing the govt of India can do for the plight of Hindus in any other country that are citizens of that country. At the most might issue a diplomatic cable, but even that will be seen as interfering in other countries internal issues.

The CAA law brought would have enabled a few of them to settle in india if they choose to, but local anti- CAA agitations have put paid to those plans also.

that the govt of india is trying to do something specifically for Hindus is the most disgusting thing.

while neglecting minorities living in its own country, especially.

you are trying too hard to justify the disgusting BJP fcukwads.. the conversation is pointless. I have no respect for anyone who thinks BJP is even halfway decent. Its just a signal for me that they are bigots.

[Raven_Rayes]

2 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

My point is very simple. These are self styled atheists who use these terms to hide their disdain for Hinduism. They are not atheists in pure sense other than to target the majority/Hindus with another point as atheists. Irfan habib has enough clout in educational setup to run things till recently. Trupti Desai is trying hard to be next set of NGO crowd puller with her antics.

I have asked if you know anyone is staying in Pakistan, iran and thailand and fighting the majority religion there because as far as I know any serious fighter will be behind bars.

yes i am interested in any serious names. Malala doesn't stay in Pakistan, she stays in UK and maybe visits Pakistan after her Nobel prize and has now taken the  usual establishment stance of Kashmir and people rights. But she doesn't live in Pakistan per se. So any other names are okay.

why are you so obsessed with atheists, when you are actually referring to leftists here?

are you trying to make the point that muslims cannot be atheist, because I've already given you names (there are probably more atheists in Islam than Hinduism).

if you are trying to measure their bravery by wanting names of people who are fighting against Islam in pakistan a simple google search would give you names like Junaid Hafeez, ayaz nizami etc who are in jail.

may be you are trying to tell me that islam is particularly evil, and atheists should first criticize that evil, before coming to Hinduism. I don't agree with that. I can only criticize my surroundings, not the neighbours.

[telugu_fan]

2 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Your contention is that 1940s Hindus were okay with criticism of Hinduism. Pls read biography of Ambedkar to learn how tolerant Hindus were of his criticism of Hinduism.

atheists are never going to have the support of the general population. When Hindu reformers fought against sati, they faced only scorn from fellow Hindus. When daughters were allowed to stake claim for ancestral property, entire Hindu society stood up in arms against it.

today you are trying to pretend like Hindus were always tolerant or more tolerant than muslims... Its just means that atheists in pakistani society have bigger stakes, but doesn't mean atheists in Hindu society are safe. especially if the atheists are leftists. because there are bunch of atheists on the hindutva side who mock Hinduism and get away with that.

 

Hindus or for that matter any person of other religions will not be okay with the criticism of their religion or the attacks on their gods/holy figures. that is to be expected. Nobody is also saying that atheists will be crowned with garlands for their work. Most of their work will be revisited maybe years or decades after their work to see the changes in the society.

Todays self styled atheists like Javed Akhtar, irfan habib to quote as examples (they have called themselves atheists not me) and most of the others (there might be some who are genuinely doing good work) are just a bunch of people who see criticizing Hindus and Hinduism as Hindus don't do Sar tan Se Juda kind of antics.

You will not find people fighting for woman rights say that same thing about Nikah halala practice, or the people speaking about goonghat not talk about burqa when they can be clubbed under womans choice and freedom. These antics expose them for the hypocritical nature they exhibit when even after asking they are not willing to condemn regressive practices. So they loose support of majority of the people, the people following the practice will not support them either way whether hindus or other religions.

[telugu_fan]

1 minute ago, Raven_Rayes said:

why are you so obsessed with atheists, when you are actually referring to leftists here?

are you trying to make the point that muslims cannot be atheist, because I've already given you names (there are probably more atheists in Islam than Hinduism).

if you are trying to measure their bravery by wanting names of people who are fighting against Islam in pakistan a simple google search would give you names like Junaid Hafeez, ayaz nizami etc who are in jail.

may be you are trying to tell me that islam is particularly evil, and atheists should first criticize that evil, before coming to Hinduism. I don't agree with that. I can only criticize my surroundings, not the neighbours.

I am referring to hypocites who use terms like Atheists, they can be leftists, islamist, Hindus also. I have only quoted those names as examples.

I am saying if you have called yourself an atheist then any superstition is fair game.

You can criticize the evil practice in society no matter where ever it is. there are substantial muslim and christian people in India as well and a lot of practices are followed here as well. Just because you are scared that somebody will separate your head can't be silent on aspect while piling on the other community that normally isn't violent is just escapism and cowardice as far as i am concerned and such people end up hurting the cause more than others by strengthening the counter arguments in the long run.

[telugu_fan]

25 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

that the govt of india is trying to do something specifically for Hindus is the most disgusting thing.

while neglecting minorities living in its own country, especially.

you are trying too hard to justify the disgusting BJP fcukwads.. the conversation is pointless. I have no respect for anyone who thinks BJP is even halfway decent. Its just a signal for me that they are bigots.

The govt of India has a problem on its hands when people come to India in a few thousands due to religious persecution and keep moving from place to place with no rights and are basically illegals that don't want to go back for the fear of their lives, then the govt has to enact some sort of measures temporary or permanent.

the so called humanitarians are not going to speak for these faiths if they don't belong to islam. Btw the CAA targeted everyone who are non muslims as by simple logic you cannot be discriminated on the basis of islam if you are a muslim. But in the case of Shia and Ahmediya you will be considered under normal provisions. But Shias would like to go to neighboring Iran and Ahmediyas have Bahrain that doesn't ill treat them.

For all the noise that Owaisi made on CAA his party led an agitation against the Ahmediyas in the old city of Hyderabad in 2007 time frame with violenet clashes in the old city and the then Congress party in the center and in the state were silent.

the govt of India should work for everyone - majority or minority, Hindus or otherwise, saying that govt working for Hindus or enacting something for Hindus is bad is well just poor knowledge of the way a govt should function.

Perhaps you have any working solutions that the govt of India can enact for the minorities apart from what they are already doing. the minority commission has more money and representation that % of their population. Not that i have any issue with it. but what exactly do you need the govt to provide for the minorities that it can do more?